[BlackDove]

And we're the ones flaming

[QuantumDelta]

You can be quiet 'n' all, even if they get the last word,
And damnit I'm serious be quiet =P

[BlackDove]

Erm.....hush

But it doesn't matter anyway, they decided to take things the way they wanted, can't blaim em really and can't say I wouldn't do the same thing if I was in their place.

Oh well, I'mma go immerse myself into dg's sig, I like it cuz the show was great

[QuantumDelta]

hahah, Beat you there by a day , I was looking for a song, found it too, blitzkreig bop...hehe, not as great as what I remember it being on the show...but it's still pretty good...
Nice linkage there DG

[Stunaep]

Originally posted by Knight Templar
You two posting brings to mind so many stereotypes...

Mission Programmers can't fly you say?



That's the most arrogant thing i've heard all week.

Thumbs up KT!

Mission Designer spend 30% of their Mission Desiging behind FRED and 70% behind FS2, testing their missions on all possible skill levels. That develops skill, mind you.

[Stunaep]

Originally posted by QuantumDelta


Final point.
Come try it, kiddo. What have you got to lose?
Expansion upon that final point.
Right now, BD and I are pretty much #1 and #2 on pxo respectively, lol, Suppose you do come down there and knock us off our pirch, it'd shut us up a bit, if you lose? meh, just another person like any other ;p

Quantum. There is a difference between can't fly, and can't fly like you.

You and BD are the top two players in PXO (though Admiral Hafgan and L-bolt might be higher from you in score, don't know, haven't checked the scoreboard lately).

Playing somewhat worse than you is not playing bad. It's playing Very Well, instead of play Uber-Higly-Stupidly-Well, like you do. It's not playing bad.

[Stunaep]

And forgive me Shrike for starting this again. I'll be sure to read the rest of the thread as well next time.

[vyper]

Originally posted by Stunaep

Quantum. There is a difference between can't fly, and can't fly like you.

You and BD are the top two players in PXO (though Admiral Hafgan and L-bolt might be higher from you in score, don't know, haven't checked the scoreboard lately).

Playing somewhat worse than you is not playing bad. It's playing Very Well, instead of play Uber-Higly-Stupidly-Well, like you do. It's not playing bad.

I hate to be the party pooper over all this but really - most of the people here who played fs1/2 since it came out have grown up now and have a life. They don't have time to sit and get 101% success rates in thier online gaming - they just do it for fun when they can, in between doing that they do best: modding/fredding in the little online time they take. Do I give a sh1t if any1 is higher than me on the PXO board? Er... no not really. I DO care whether people like my campaign, when its out, or if they like my plots/voice-acting etc but I won't go ***** at sum1 else if they aren't as good as me at it.

Now, to get back on track, slightly, I think fs1 was superior because it was first time we'd seen ANYTHING like it. we will always being in awe.

[BlackDove]

Originally posted by Stunaep


Thumbs up KT!

Mission Designer spend 30% of their Mission Desiging behind FRED and 70% behind FS2, testing their missions on all possible skill levels. That develops skill, mind you.

No disagreement there, just that drones and humans are a slightly different thing, however yeah, it still developes skill, no argument there....

Originally posted by Stunaep

Quantum. There is a difference between can't fly, and can't fly like you.

You and BD are the top two players in PXO (though Admiral Hafgan and L-bolt might be higher from you in score, don't know, haven't checked the scoreboard lately).

Playing somewhat worse than you is not playing bad. It's playing Very Well, instead of play Uber-Higly-Stupidly-Well, like you do. It's not playing bad.

Didn't say you fly bad, (it's just a usual expectancy however, based on countless examples) but you yourself might actually fly good...I am sure of my abilities, I KNOW how I fly, I've flown against countless people, lost a lot, won a lot, where I lost I learned, where I won, I won the important parts where it counted...while I was losing I was a n00bie myself. Hey if you say you know how to fly, go right on ahead, but if you don't mind I'd like to see you prove it...I don't recall sterotyping anyone, and saying "you fly bad YEAH I KNOW" without getting some sort of a hint before that. People just kind of went to the extreme in order to form some sort of insult when they are not able to assert the valid points, and go and say how I'm discriminating everyone.....it's simply not true....and then of course on top of that because swforums got closed since they lost its purpose, everyone has that as something to fill a line or two of their post, and feel smart as if they knew something

And I see the most don't get that by talking about who's better was a side topic to determene who can judge what better...it was the part where we started talking about our experience QD and I, where everyone got insulted on how their opinion suddenly doesn't count as much as ours in the gamplay area since they can't fly as us. Naturally people don't like admitting they're wrong so they just throw the "Yeah, you flamy pompous asses, go back to swforums and get the hell out of here, since you don't know anything, and if you do we don't care" speech. Consequently I don't give a damn if people find me as an arrogant ass, couldn't care less about anyones opinion on me. however what bothers me is that most people here would like to replace their inferiority complex or the creativity lack by trying to take offense as the best defense, and end up dragging the topic away from what it originally was.

Oh and...nobody still answered QD's "more-on-topic" post....wonder why's that...

Oh and psst, you Neo-Terran-Nazi-T2-Scout , don't close the thread yet cuz this might just go somewhere if everyone stopped feeling insecure and dropped the "I don't care act"

[Knight Templar]

just that drones and humans are a slightly different thing

oh? and what is that supposed to mean exactly?

Oh and...nobody still answered QD's "more-on-topic" post....wonder why's that...

Why? Maybe cuz people think it's old now? I dunno, that's why I didn't bother.. Why don't you respond to it, unless you are just parroting him.

if everyone stopped feeling insecure and dropped the "I don't care act"

But you see, that's exactly it. We Don't care.  Not in the slightest. If I were contending with you for 2nd place or whatever.. perhaps then.

[QuantumDelta]

...Side note, no we don't out rank them, we could, if we liked, but, like points were stated for here before...
Playing Rebel Intercept fifteenhundred times does not equal skill, damn, I can complete that mission in an ares, picking up every single kill (....With use of the AI)...
That's all they do, really, although Bolty is starting to play TvT, and has improved A LOT since he first stepped into our game.
Fred believes we cheat because he just can't fathom what we do....I offered to teach him, he thinks he knows best.
Oh well...

KT - It means, AI Are pathetic, ok? They really aren't worth the missiles or weapon energy.

Second quote.. "Your cynacism appauls me"

Third quote..Speak for yourself, no wait, you don't care, don't speak at all, let CP make his points.

Followin up on vyper, BOT; being the first, FS1 had an advantage, you are right there...hehe

[edit]Nice quotage Vyper, That song rules...[/edit]

[Stunaep]

Due to popular demand...

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Storyline wise, as I think I said earlier, I had to take FS1 apart at great lengths, and then had to expand upon that taking FS2 into account, Suprisingly enough, the group, and the teacher, prefered FS1, simply, because the story whilst simpler, is a better, and easier thing to convey, the game itself does it brilliantly, which is my point, FS2's storyline is just a mishmash of various elements, the transending plot isn't really very uhhh... hmm, can't think of the word..lol.. it doesn't keep it's focus...
You can see a student trying to explain this, "You desperately engage your after burners and try to make up the gap to the Lucifer, pushing your ship as hard as you can, getting to the node, you engage your subspace drives, and hope to hell that you can handle what's going to be on the other side, knowing you'll have no shields, knowing that there could be hundreds of fighters, vs your small taskforce of twelve fighters and bombers, you fight bravely, and strongly, to keep the enemy fighters down while your team mates go to work on the reactor subsystems, hoping you can buy them enough time to take the ship out before it gets to Sol...Earth...Home... With only a few minutes before the Lucifer reaches earth, you blow the final reactor, and break out of the subspace corridor into the Sol System, hitting your burners again you run from the blast of the Lucifer, deadly to your small ships, and so you make it home, to a hero's welcome, except you have been sealed in this small system, all alone...."

Or...Alternately...

"Messing around with the plot, more messing around, more messing around, ok, now we get to the main point"
"OH CRAP WE STOMPED ON A KILLER ANTS MOUND RUN!!!!"
"Hundreds of Sathanus Juggernauts pour out of the node,  making their mysterious way to the Cappella star, completely unstoppable by anything we have in our arsenal (cough cough liars...you just don't know how to fight), we decide because we cannot possibly hold even a candle to these ships that we will evacuate, during the evacuation, whilst you're fighting with their forces, you receive a warning from command, the Capella star has gone super nova... you have to get out, you have to leave the others, there's nothing you can do but jump....you jump as the tidal wave of gravitational, radiation, and heat passes by the point your ship had previously occupied, you make it home, losing Capella, but you have gained a possible ticket home...Earth....32 years....I wonder what she'll be like...."

My response to this would be... well... (no offence in everything that follows)... SO WHAT?

It has a lot of plot points. Interesting plot points, I might add. Sure we've seen the evil-guy-who-knows-a-lot-more-than-he-appears-to before (take president Clark in Babylon 5 for example, or Morden in the same series), but I must add, that at least for me, what he was planning was interesting. The part where Command let Bosch escape in the third mission has already been discussed, I think in another FS1 vs. FS2 thread, go read about it there. Then it has the general Knossos storyline, the Colossus and the Shivans. Let's summarize:

NTF - Bosch and his ETAK project, crushing of the NTF, Bosch escaping into nebula, Bosch going to the Shivan Theme Park (tm)
with Shivans

Knossos - Ancient portal leading to a mysterious nebula, and a possible chance to restore contact with earth.

Colossus - Big ass ship designed to counter the Lucifer, that ends the Neo-Terran front, but gets killed in the worst mission of Freespace 2 (note the '2', FS1 had worse missions) ever.

Shivans - Shivans come with a recon Sath, which we destroy, then they bring in the fleet and Destroy Capella.

Now that's not that much, now is it?  I seemed to follow the story quite well on my first time through, and I didn't even have the Command Briefings then (I had a ripped FS2 back then. Bought the real one a year later). They all are closely focused (you never cut back-and-forth from NTF story to Shivans story for example, if there is the Colossus, then you have the Colossus story for 4-5 missions straight. If you have the Shivan plot line, then you have the Shivans 4-5 missions straight).

And FS1 also had a lot of plot lines (T-V war, McCarthy, Shivans, Hammer of Light, and Ancients.)

[CP5670]

Alright, you asked for it...

And I see the most don't get that by talking about who's better was a side topic to determene who can judge what better...it was the part where we started talking about our experience QD and I, where everyone got insulted on how their opinion suddenly doesn't count as much as ours in the gamplay area since they can't fly as us.

No, actually your great skill is a disadvantage in some ways here, because your are making complaints about the game that make no sense. See, you are used to being exactly the ultra pilot Alpha 1 that I talked about before, taking down destroyers in seconds, and in FS1 it was actually very easy for anyone to do this. Now in FS2 they changed around things to make it slightly harder; still very easy for you, but very slightly harder so that maybe where you could take down ten destroyers in a row in FS1, you can only blow up nine in FS2, and so you find a cause to complain. However, you are losing track of the fact that this whole thing is so absurdly beyond ridiciulous from a plausibility point of view. The GTA and GTVA did not win their battles because of individual ace fighter jocks (or perhaps they did in your case, but they were not intended to by the designers); successful operations were mostly carried out by attrition, by the numbers. There are other games where this single hero sort of thing did occur (e.g. Wing Commander), but that was what set the FS series so much higher above the others; the lack of emphasis on the player made far more sense.

Besides, I can quite see that around 9 out of 10 instances where you talked of being the best players around had absolutely nothing to do with your points then or even the subject matter, but it was simply to show off. (and I have seen exactly this kind of talk many, many times from others on the VBB, so it is quite familiar to me, although I did not expect it from my own mates) I don't want to be mean here, but you should know how you are coming across to others; nobody is asking you to apologize, but just try and clean it up from here on. Actually, the best pilot I personally have seen is probably Dark/Sleeper, and the best team is by far Drak. (although I have not played for a long while and things may have changed now)

But you see, that's exactly it. We Don't care. Not in the slightest. If I were contending with you for 2nd place or whatever.. perhaps then.

Exactly. See, I think you guys are used to arguing with other multiplayer people; in such a community, one gets respect by being a good player. But this is largely a mod community and that is simply not the way people gain popularity and respect around here.

Oh and...nobody still answered QD's "more-on-topic" post....wonder why's that...

Actually, I didn't respond to it already because it said exactly the same stuff that had been said and countered before by others in different words and I couldn't make out half of what was being said. But I'll go ahead anyway just for the heck of it:

Storyline wise, as I think I said earlier, I had to take FS1 apart at great lengths, and then had to expand upon that taking FS2 into account, Suprisingly enough, the group, and the teacher, prefered FS1, simply, because the story whilst simpler, is a better, and easier thing to convey, the game itself does it brilliantly, which is my point, FS2's storyline is just a mishmash of various elements, the transending plot isn't really very uhhh... hmm, can't think of the word..lol.. it doesn't keep it's focus...

Alright, I see what you are saying here, but our point here is that each of FS2's "various elements" equalled the big one of FS1 in depth/complexity, plausibility and execution, and this is evidenced by the numerous reviews out there. It's like having several great storylines merged into one mega-story. (also, notice that FS1 had a lot more "filler missions" than FS2, which was necessary given its simpler nature)

You can see a student trying to explain this, "You desperately engage your after burners and try to make up the gap to the Lucifer, pushing your ship as hard as you can, getting to the node, you engage your subspace drives, and hope to hell that you can handle what's going to be on the other side, knowing you'll have no shields, knowing that there could be hundreds of fighters, vs your small taskforce of twelve fighters and bombers, you fight bravely, and strongly, to keep the enemy fighters down while your team mates go to work on the reactor subsystems, hoping you can buy them enough time to take the ship out before it gets to Sol...Earth...Home... With only a few minutes before the Lucifer reaches earth, you blow the final reactor, and break out of the subspace corridor into the Sol System, hitting your burners again you run from the blast of the Lucifer, deadly to your small ships, and so you make it home, to a hero's welcome, except you have been sealed in this small system, all alone...."

Sounds good, this is exactly the feeling we all got. Now look at what you wrote here:

"Messing around with the plot, more messing around, more messing around, ok, now we get to the main point"
"OH CRAP WE STOMPED ON A KILLER ANTS MOUND RUN!!!!"

so...you're saying that the Lucifer is more dangerous than 80+ Sathanas?

"Hundreds of Sathanus Juggernauts pour out of the node, making their mysterious way to the Cappella star, completely unstoppable by anything we have in our arsenal (cough cough liars...you just don't know how to fight)

Here is an example of where your piloting skills become detrimental; yeah, I'm sure pilots like you could beat up the juggernauts in no time flat, but it would make so little sense that the Quake story would look plausible in comparison.

we decide because we cannot possibly hold even a candle to these ships that we will evacuate, during the evacuation, whilst you're fighting with their forces, you receive a warning from command, the Capella star has gone super nova... you have to get out, you have to leave the others, there's nothing you can do but jump....you jump as the tidal wave of gravitational, radiation, and heat passes by the point your ship had previously occupied, you make it home, losing Capella, but you have gained a possible ticket home...Earth....32 years....I wonder what she'll be like...."

Now everyone should see what I mean when I say that you have simply made up your mind to not like the FS2 story. I bet that if the FS1 and FS2 plots were switched around, you would say exactly the opposite thing. This whole Capella thing is just as intense (if not more so) as the FS1 ending for the rest of us (and for every game reviewer out there). And perhaps the best part of the whole thing is, it keeps you thinking and speculating about what happens next. FS1's ending feels like a fitting conclusion, while FS2's feels like a prelude to something even greater, and most great stories have some of this. Look at the custom campaign plotlines for FS1 and compare those with the FS2; you will see a remarkable difference.

[karajorma]

Rather than make any assumptions I`d like to ask a few questions first.

How often do you play singleplayer FS1 or FS2 QD/BD?

Do you play other FS2 campaigns or do you find them too easy as well?

[QuantumDelta]

Really short answer to CP for one point, might do the rest later...
Lucifer did more psychological and economical, as well as physical damage to the T-V Alliance then all the SJ's combined, true they didn't care, but that ain't the point...

Kara It's alright for making assumptions, I gave up on Single player campaigns/mods, a long time ago... think the last one I actually bothered with was Derelict, that just finished it for me...heh
BWO, I am waiting for....
Reciprocity, I'm waiting for, we shall see....

I rarely/never play the single player anymore, too many tedious missions...
That said, I don't often play FS1 anymore, however FS1 has about the same amount of good missions are FS2 does...
Point is, FS2 has more crap you have to sift through to get to them...
I would write out a list of both, but my FS1 currently, isn't working (....Think it's something to do with those upgraded textures...but I crash everytime I load it....)
Waiting for XP Corp before I can retry that one...

The two Clash of the titan missions I do enjoy, however the first is harder then the second, simply because you can't be everywhere at once, and you don't have as many wingmen, nor do you have trebs, like you do in FS2 (If you had trebs, by default, any mission is theoretically possible in FS2...)
The second I enjoy, not because it taxes me, but because it is pretty much constant and fast paced, now here's where my tastes in the two games differ, FS2, has more action, keeping you moving in a mission almost all the time (well...unless you copout like BD does ) FS1, you have to think far more tactically in some situations, because you don't have the wealth of weaponry, etc..

CP - Name the 'filler missions' in FS1....
Then name the fillers in FS2... (Stealth-test counts as a filler, Tag does not count as a thriller because K3 came back...IMO.)

havin tried a few campaigns before Derelict, which were equally painful, (Actually some of derelict eg; the encompassing plot actually appealed to me...)
I am a storyline addict, that is the only reason why I would play a single player campaign, or single player game, (any game...) FS1's storyline was only ever weak before you meet the Shivan's, but even then, it had depth....you start with a briefing "...we just lost 104 pilots in a single operation..."

ehm...well...gtg, heh, typical I can't write the essay I want

[Stealth]

remember that when QD first got FS1 he played the entire single-player campaign in INSANE mode (difficulty) by mistake, which explains why he's so awesome.

... and he is awesome.

it doesn't matter if it's "too easy for you" though... if it's fun, who cares how easy it is

[diamondgeezer]

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
...Hundreds of Sathanus Juggernauts pour out of the node,  making their mysterious way to the Cappella star, completely unstoppable by anything we have in our arsenal (cough cough liars...you just don't know how to fight...

Well good God man! Tell GTVA Command! If they'd have known about your skillz, they could have just deployed you and BD instead of all those warships, and we might never have lost Capella! Hell, we could have ownT the nebula by now...

Dude, you wanna try play testing the alpha versions of your latest missions over and over and over and over and... it drives a geezer nuts.

[Stunaep]

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Really short answer to CP for one point, might do the rest later...
Lucifer did more psychological and economical, as well as physical damage to the T-V Alliance then all the SJ's combined, true they didn't care, but that ain't the point...

Lucifer severed the contact with Earth and cost the Vasudans their home world. I agree that being a very strong psychological, economical point. As for the physical: In FS1 We lost all CONNECTIONS to a system, and two fleets (1st Terra based fleet and well all the other lost ships make up about a fleet)

The SJ fleet cost us three systems (Capella, Gamma Draconis, and the Nebula), one of them was lost... well physically the 3rd fleet, the 6th fleet (Bosch's fleet), several Vasudan Battlegroups, plus some more, according to Admiral Petrarch,  the Colossus, millions of people DEAD (while the ones on Earth could still be alive), hundreds millions left homeless, quadrillions worth of resources forever. That far outweighs everything we lost in the Great War, physically, pshycologally and economically.

CP - Name the 'filler missions' in FS1....
Then name the fillers in FS2... (Stealth-test counts as a filler, Tag does not count as a thriller because K3 came back...IMO.)

Stealth test does NOT count, because it introduces you to the Stealth technology which you will use later in game. The same goes for many other missions which you consider fillers, but were necessary for n00bs to get acquainted to bombing, bomber intercept whatever. More examples, please.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Kara It's alright for making assumptions,

I know it's pretty informal here but I`ve never liked making comments without data. Too much of the scientist still in my personality even if I've switched to another career

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Stunaep

Lucifer severed the contact with Earth and cost the Vasudans their home world. I agree that being a very strong psychological, economical point. As for the physical: In FS1 We lost all CONNECTIONS to a system, and two fleets (1st Terra based fleet and well all the other lost ships make up about a fleet)

The SJ fleet cost us three systems (Capella, Gamma Draconis, and the Nebula), one of them was lost... well physically the 3rd fleet, the 6th fleet (Bosch's fleet), several Vasudan Battlegroups, plus some more, according to Admiral Petrarch,  the Colossus, millions of people DEAD (while the ones on Earth could still be alive), hundreds millions left homeless, quadrillions worth of resources forever. That far outweighs everything we lost in the Great War, physically, pshycologally and economically.

I wouldn`t agree with you there completely. The casualty figures for FS1 are definately higher. The vasudans lost BILLIONS when Vasuda Prime got blasted. That's far more than all of the casualties in FS2.

However I`ll agree that the psychological damage was worse. In FS1 we killed the shivan super ship. and then kicked the crap out of the rest of their capital ships. By the end of Silent Threat the GTI were a bigger threat. For all we know that could be all the shivans there were. The shivans could be a migratory species and the destruction of the Lucifer could have been the start of the end for them.

By the start of FS2 the GTVA are even cocky about their chances against the shivans. This makes their defeat by the sathanas fleet more damaging. Worse the GTVA know that shivans have some way to get into Ross 128 and other GTVA systems which means that they can invade whenever they want.