Author Topic: "Free" Subspace  (Read 5101 times)

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Ok, we all know what the subspace corridors between systems with jump nodes look like. But what I'm wondering is, when you jump out of the area after a mission with your ship - what does that subspace look like? Should I expect it to just be a corridor or should it be something else?

I'm asking this because I'm running an idea around in my head about something that we might want to do with the FS2 Source code project, and this would be an issue with it.

 

Offline Shrike

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in-system jumps are nearly instantaneous.
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Online Solatar

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Yah, you powerup your drives, and go into the little warp thingy, then pop-out somewhere else.

 

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Offline StratComm

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And besides, when you call for reinforcements or resupply they appear instantly.  That would be sort of hard to do if you had to transverse subspace instead of making a point-to-point jump.
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Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 

Offline karajorma

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Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
in-system jumps are nearly instantaneous.


Only for fighters.

 
Quote
The NTCv Belisarius, a Deimos-class corvette, has run our blockade of the Sirius jump node. We are now tracking the vessel through subspace. We have vectored its course to your immediate vicinity.


The Belisarius is already in subspace when that message is sent yet it takes about 15 seconds more for it to arrive near the player.
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Offline Kazashi

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Quote
Originally posted by karajorma

The Belisarius is already in subspace when that message is sent yet it takes about 15 seconds more for it to arrive near the player.


Was the Belisarius making an in-system jump, or an interstellar one? I can no longer remember :shaking:
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Offline aldo_14

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Quote
Originally posted by Kazashi


Was the Belisarius making an in-system jump, or an interstellar one? I can no longer remember :shaking:


I'd say insystem.... i don't remember a jumpnode being in the first mission.

 

Offline Joey_21

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Unless the vessel had already gotten out of the node when command sent the message and jumped again for in-system travel and took 15 seconds for the deimos to arrive at our location.... In that condition then larger vessels would be reduced in subspace travel speed, but not by much. If fighters/bombers are instantaneous and corvettes take 15 seconds then it looks like a good 40-60 seconds for destroyers and juggernauts.

 

Offline Stunaep

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well, they said that the vessel would come out of subspace momentarily, so they could have vectored it's course while it was powering up jump drives.
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Online Solatar

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I would say that the larger the vessel, the less instantanious the jump effect is. Also, the distance of the jump effects it. A fighter going from one side of a planet to another would be there instantly, while a fighter going from one side of the system to another would be in subspace a little while.

 

Offline Sesquipedalian

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If the FS Bible says intrasystem jumps are instantaneous, I'd say it is wrong.  That doesn't make any sense.  It might be short time, but not instantaneous.  It takes fighters some time to get through subspace, just like it did the Deimos.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2002, 05:02:09 pm by 448 »
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Offline Ulundel

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Just take the distance between Sol and Delta Serpentis, then some random in system distance and figure it out.

Someone call CP

 

Offline CP5670

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It might be just some really short amount of time (i.e. 1/10 of a second) but I also don't think that the fighter drives would be truly instantaneous, as this is not really consistent with the larger ship times.

Quote
Just take the distance between Sol and Delta Serpentis, then some random in system distance and figure it out.

Someone call CP


:D Well it seems that the actual positions of the places where the ships warp in/out have little to do with the time required, at least if the nodemap is any indication. (e.g. Alpha Centauri is much closer than DS but it would take much longer to get there using subspace)
« Last Edit: November 02, 2002, 05:34:21 pm by 296 »

 

Offline karajorma

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Quote
Originally posted by Stunaep
well, they said that the vessel would come out of subspace momentarily, so they could have vectored it's course while it was powering up jump drives.


That would only give them direction and not distance so they still wouldn`t be sure that the Belisarius going.
 Even if that isn't true (like there was only one place of interest in that direction) capships don`t actually appear to need to turn before entering subspace. Every time I`ve seen a capship jump out it just jumps in the direction it was last facing.

Lastly there's a 20 second or so delay between the first message and the appearance of the Belisarius. If subspace is instantanious for capships what was the Belisarius doing in that time? Why would they send a message that they are tracking the Belisarius through subspace when it hasn`t even left yet? Surely the message would say that the Belisarius is preparing to jump and for the psamtik to get ready in case it does.
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Offline Bobboau

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subspace tracking, first used to destroy the Lucifer, requires you see the ship enter subspace, there fore it can be assumed that the mesage was sent just before the ship entered subspace, now lets say the two points are on oposite ends of the system, and lets say it takes about five\ten seconds for the larger vessle to enter/exit subspace, with a delay of twenty seconds that gives somewere between 10 and 0 seconds for transit time averege that out to 5 for a very long trip across a system, compare that to seven minutes and it is nearly instantainius,

so for implementing in system just into the game I would show the warp model, as soon as the eye point passes through the cull plain of the warpout effect render only the subspace model,
for about a second or two then do the same thing you did for the warpout only when the eye passes the cull plain show the new sceen,
while in subspace load any new data files you may need
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....Actually according to bosian theory, which is probably about the closest thing we have to FS2's subspace thingy...
It's kinda possible to suggest that time travel is viable through subspace...


Besides that point.
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Has a point, subspace communication isn't instantaneous either is it? if it was then ok, the bel is coming in real time with the communication, but if it takes a few extra seconds for the transmission to get there?

If Inter-System subspace would have to be described, most current theories, and other forms of speculation (Sci-fi O.o) would suggest it would just be the same as normal space, except, with absolutely nothing apart from bosian particles and an energistic representation of the objects you are passing while in subspace...

Hmm, not sure how to give you an idea of what it really looks like though, considering it is all theory, it's normally represented as several red/dark red/purple colours, and can seem like layers of space pealing back, but I don't really think FS went into that much detail about their science :P
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Offline karajorma

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Quote
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Has a point, subspace communication isn't instantaneous either is it? if it was then ok, the bel is coming in real time with the communication, but if it takes a few extra seconds for the transmission to get there?


Communication in FS2 must be instantanious. Command isn`t present yet seems to instantly know what is going on even when you are on a mission millions of miles away from your base.

Another event that fits with subspace not being instantious is the events in Feint, Parry, Ripost. While it should take a while for Koth's ship to leap in (the NTF cruisers would have had to call for help etc) the collossus should have been able to leap in the instant that the Repulse was sighted as it was waiting for the trap to spring. Yet it takes nearly a minute for it to do so.

I guess this makes sense if size makes a difference but distance (within the same gravity well at least) doesn't. Photons travel through subspace instantly, fighters less than a second or two, corvettes 30 seconds or so, the colossus about a minute.
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Bosian theory has two waves, the retrospect and the aspect, the retrospect is a theoretical wave that would travel backwards through time from the point it was originated in, this theorum links time and space....

Particles that could be effected by this retrospect wave, would be able, in theory, to transverse through any point in the space time continumm (providing it's already happened).

According to current science the retrospect doesn't do much, however in theory it could be used to dictate the time at which something would 'arrive' after its 'left', the aspect is a more physical wave that would dictate where the things would arrive, however with current physics models it also dictates the time (because obviously you have to travel through space which takes time so the aspect will control how long it takes to arrive at the vectored exit point), normally the aspect 'controls' and 'covers' the retrospect because aspect waves are much more powerful...
I'll need to re-read some stuff before I can explain it anymore then that...
Sorry, it's been a while....lol

But yes, you're right, for plots sake at least subspace comms must be real time, the point is, if the subspace drives use bosian theory, they could arrive instantaneously, or in a hundred years, and the only difference to the people onboard the said driven ship would be what they noticed when they got out the other side...
....in theory though, it's instantaneous (intersystem) for the people who're in subspace, it's just not so instantaneous for everyone else.....
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Offline aldo_14

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Quote
From the FSRefBible
Subspace Technology


While travel into subspace is enabled via ship-borne devices (called “subspace engines”, “cores”, or “motivators”), it’s long been known that subspace itself is a naturally-occuring phenomena.  

Subspace, for the intents of this document, is an alternate physical plane of space where the normal limits of relativistic physics and travel don’t apply.  By entering subspace for a relatively brief period of time, a space vessel can emerge in a location in realspace several star systems away.  This technology has allowed the human race to spread across much of the known Galaxy.

There are essentially two modes of subspace travel, inter-system and intra-system.

Intra-system subspace travel is nearly instantaneous, and requires relatively little energy input to enable.  Most of the GTA’s advanced fighters are equipped with intra-system jump motivators, allowing them to travel at will within a given star system.  There is little or no restriction on the beginning and end points of such a subspace “hop,” except that they be in the same star system.  

Inter-system travel via subspace is another matter entirely.  The end points of inter-system subspace jumps are limited to the naturally-occuring focal points of subspace, also known as “nodes.”  These nodes were initially discovered by Prof. J. Whiteside (see McPherson’s Multipaedia  (2557 ed.), pp 1132-1140).  Only between two subspace nodes is the fabric of subspace strong enough to support inter-system travel.  The defense of the physical locations surrounding such nodes proved to be a central part of the 14-year Terran-Vasudan War.

In addition, such massive amounts of energy input are required to open an inter-system node, that only the largest fusion pile reactors in existence are able to sustain it.  As a result, inter-system subspace travel is almost exclusively made by the largest vessels in production.  This fact has made the GTA’s Orion-class destroyer/carriers a pivotal and crucial part to the GTA’s tactical forces during the T-V War.

Needless to say, the ability to deliver ships of war to nearly any pinpointed destination has forever revolutionized the concepts and long-standing tenants of space combat.


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