Author Topic: Why building a new Collosus right away would be practical  (Read 12221 times)

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Offline DTP

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Why building a new Collosus right away would be practical
Quote
Originally posted by Hades
Well, the Orion was supposed to be "bristling with dozens of Death Dealing turrets". But then again that isn't a great comparison as the Orion is a great warship. But the Colossus was good at what she was made for, pulverizing NTF ships. Don't forget, it wasn't designed to take on a Sathanas, and the fact that it did is a great achievement.


correction, it was designed to take on the Lucifer destroyer class, when they started building the thing, they knew nothing of sathanes.
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Offline Solatar

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Why building a new Collosus right away would be practical
I stand corrected. But it still was designed to take on a Sathanas.:D

 

Offline Anaz

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Why building a new Collosus right away would be practical
Quote
Originally posted by Hades
I stand corrected. But it still was designed to take on a Sathanas.:D


ermm...didn't you just contradict yourself??
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Why building a new Collosus right away would be practical
Yeah Zy, the .tbl sounds about right maybe... dunno, memory's trashed... Does it say about the Myrmy and the H?

Gotta go with Geeze on the speed. I kinda think it pretty obvious to see that V wanted to make a distinction between 'aircraft' and cap-ships to give the feel of contemporary style aircraft and ships... it creates the specific feel of the game they wanted players to enjoy... what fun is there in chasing down yer ship down when it can outrun you and especially when it's just been spooked by a lucy or a sath?

I mean, as a player, I'd feel better knowing that if I'm going down, at least there are a lot of innocent people coming with me than if they escaped and left me for dead (like in WC 5) :thepimp:

 
Why building a new Collosus right away would be practical
...you know... that whole 'fear of abandonment' issue... again.

 

Offline Solatar

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Why building a new Collosus right away would be practical
Quote
Originally posted by Hades


I stand corrected. But it still was designed to take on a Sathanas.:D


:nervous:

That's gotta be the stupidest typo I've ever done....

 
Why building a new Collosus right away would be practical
Quote
Originally posted by Carl

 if you want to carry a big weapon, you need a big ship. you can't just stick a beam on anything and expect it to work.


...and thats why I said they should spend time developing reactors and weapons instead of building bigger targets for the shivans.

see "Lilith"

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Offline SKYNET-011

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Why building a new Collosus right away would be practical
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Originally posted by StratComm
Actually I'll bet it was an easter egg.  Not very many missions in the campaign let you arm the myrmidon with Helios, simply because one or the other isn't available.


Nah... They did it so the Myrmidon wouldn't suck too bad.:D
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Offline Solatar

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Why building a new Collosus right away would be practical
I thought the Myrmidon was an excellent fighter. Although the Ulysses has a higher survival rating against fighters(I did a test, Ulysses vs. Myrmidon. Which ste of wingmen would last longer against a wing of Dragons)

 

Offline karajorma

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Why building a new Collosus right away would be practical
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Originally posted by SayWhatNow?
Yeah Zy, the .tbl sounds about right maybe... dunno, memory's trashed... Does it say about the Myrmy and the H?


Nope it says nothing about the myrm carrying helios's. In fact the myrm is far too small to carry a helios judging from these pics.





That said I`ve never compared any of the other FS2 missiles. They might all be too big :)

EDIT : odd. why didn`t the pics show up?
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Offline Anaz

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Why building a new Collosus right away would be practical
LOL! The missile does look a bit big...

and on a side note, how did you get the textured ships into TS?
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Offline karajorma

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Why building a new Collosus right away would be practical
I just extracted all the textures and converted them into BMP's using Irfanview (I find it easier to use that PSP for stuff like that) and then simply extracted the ship using modelview and converted it using PCS.
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Why building a new Collosus right away would be practical
Quote
Originally posted by Hades
I thought the Myrmidon was an excellent fighter. Although the Ulysses has a higher survival rating against fighters(I did a test, Ulysses vs. Myrmidon. Which ste of wingmen would last longer against a wing of Dragons)


actually if we wanna say in terms of fictional reality, the term space supiriority means, versitility, multi-role-multi-purpose fighter/bomber (which ever it may be). Much like the F-15 Eagle, its a air supiriority fighter and it has bombing capabilities (much like all fighters these days), but the f-15 anf f-16 for sake of argument, can drop nuclear bombs/small missiles (as of 1982 lol).

why not the Myrmydon, quick strike missions assisting bombers. if they want a hit and run, you use fast fighters that can attack and bug out, but if it cant, it can put up a decent fight. And being as how secondary wise, with 3 load outs, although bleak, real fighters dont have 15 Sidewinders, and 15 anti tank missles (IE 14 harpoons and 15 trebuchets), a real fighter (f-14-18 has up to 8 air to air missiles, 4 Air to land, etc.; thus meaning versitility, multirole air/space craft. the myrmidon, IS... the best all around fighter, although coulda used more speed lol...

and Hades, dude the typo was so.... :yes:

 

Offline diamondgeezer

Why building a new Collosus right away would be practical
Which is why I want to fly Typhoons when I finally join up - fourteen missiles plus a central fuel tank! Woosh!

That whole missile thing does get at me somewhat.I'd prefer a balance like, oh, I don't know - Space: Above And Beyond (yes, I'm going off on one again...). The pilots in that basically used their cannons and we saw missiles being used, like three times in the whole series, but they used them more like modern a2a missiles. That said, the game style and "physics" of FS favour the way :V: did missiles, I suppose. If I was making a campaign, I'd probably be leaning towards having fewer but bigger missiles than the current lot, kind of half way between harpoons and trebuchets...

 
Unfortunately, with the discovery of the Juggys, the GTVA have very little choice but to invest in Colossus class ships, as they are the only (speedy) way to deal with a small incursion. From the GTVA's point of view, a lengthy engagement would be disastrous, as the complement of fighters and bombers carried by a Sathanas, over time, would easily overwhelm a star system.

Also, a Colossus class of ship makes a nice anchor point for a fleet. In terms of naval strategy, it also becomes a 'fleet in being', a bit like Bismarck (excuse spelling) in WW2. ('Fleet in being' is an extremely powerful ship or fleet that, if deployed, could cause serious damage to an enemy. The enemy is therefore forced to devote time and resources to find it and attack it, even if it does nothing.)

Regarding production and costs, it depends on how the Colossus was designed in the first place. In FS2, I suspect that it was to be a one of a kind trump card; but now has to be converted to mass production. Not a problem - we do it all of the time today. Think of the Nimitz class of carriers to see that it can be done.

 

Offline LtNarol

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Why building a new Collosus right away would be practical
But the problem lies in the fact that building a fleet of Colossi would require more resources and capital than the GTVA has.  Likewise, the Colossus class of vessel can't stand up to the 4 main beams of a Sathanas, none of the GTVA ships can for that matter.  If you're going to lose a ship that fast anyway, why not lose smaller ones?  Even the smallest of cruisers still take a beam 1 shot to kill, that means that while it takes all 4 beams on the Sathanas 2 shots to kill a Colossus those same beams could only kill 8 small cruisers in the same amount of time.  Consider the costs: 1 colossus or 8 cruisers?

Small fighters doubling as bombers would also be far more effecient at dealing with Sathani than what a Colossus could do.  Upscaling to match the Shivans just doesnt work when they pull out their trailer homes.

 
Why building a new Collosus right away would be practical
Two very good points from LtNarol there, the second one being the most significant.
Quote
Likewise, the Colossus class of vessel can't stand up to the 4 main beams of a Sathanas ...
On this point, I would presume that standard GTVA tactics would be to scramble Helios armed bombers in the event of any Sathanas incursion and knock the main beams out. Only then bring a Colossus into the fray. (A bit tough if the Colossus is ambushed by a Juggy, though.)

On the resources issue, the GTVA are fighting for the survival of their respective speices. The threat of extinction mean that resources would be devoted to such a project, if deemed necessary.

 

Offline LtNarol

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Why building a new Collosus right away would be practical
Quote
Originally posted by Cuttenslise
Two very good points from LtNarol there, the second one being the most significant. On this point, I would presume that standard GTVA tactics would be to scramble Helios armed bombers in the event of any Sathanas incursion and knock the main beams out. Only then bring a Colossus into the fray. (A bit tough if the Colossus is ambushed by a Juggy, though.)

On the resources issue, the GTVA are fighting for the survival of their respective speices. The threat of extinction mean that resources would be devoted to such a project, if deemed necessary.
Two problems:

1. Bombers are slow, with few exceptions and those exceptions can't carry the Helios, so as far as we're concerned, all bombers in question are slow sluggish bricks with engines strapped on their backs.  Simply put: vapebait for any shivan pilot hungry for kills.

2. Even with strip mining, total economic and industrial conversion, and literal enslavement of the civilian populace, you can't pump out Colossus class vessels at a good rate, you're looking at years per ship and not months.  Even assuming you can get them going at a reasonable rate, you run out of basic resources fast since a good sized moon could at best yield sufficient materials after refinement for a few such vessels.  You also leave vast economic and social holes which you have to try to plug assuming you survive.  Its just backing yourself into a corner :doubt:

 

Offline diamondgeezer

Why building a new Collosus right away would be practical
There's also the whole big "all your eggs" thing to consider

 

Offline Sandwich

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Why building a new Collosus right away would be practical
Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
..."all your eggs"...



...are belong to us??

:nervous:

*runs*
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