[Zeronet]

Some short git felt offended because nobody likes him and im a tall person, so he took to pushing me in the back. The second time he did he, i turned around walked up to him and just plain went sick(ie whacked him) on him, he never pushed me again. But thats me, im generally known for getting real angry. Course, i wasnt stupid and didnt agree to fight him, thats just foolish, such things usually end up as big fights, as both people usually bring support along.

[Stealth]

violence is never the answer, and people don't respect you for fighting, they respect you for not fighting.

[Stryke 9]

Stealth, that's entirely contextual and you know it. Sloganizing isn't gonna get anyone to listen to you- particularly when the slogan's clearly not true. Didn't you learn anything from grade school?

[IceFire]

Originally posted by Stealth
violence is never the answer, and people don't respect you for fighting, they respect you for not fighting.

Fighting my way never worked for me ever.  I was too small, too outnumbered, and far too ineffective at fighting anyone at the time.  

I was given the whole nine yards in the early grades much like many others were here as well.  Essentially it developed from a highly organized group structure amongst the kids at the time that essentially declared me not part of the "cool kids" and therefore very uncool.

This was definately a traumatic experience at the time...but it is possible to survive it.  Survival techniques...those are the tricky ones because I don't really remember what they are.  It was more a mindset.  Whatever continues to antagonize whatever behavior it is, stop it or hide it or shield it from them as best is possible.  When they find out, just leave, ignore them, let them kick up a whole bunch of fuss.  It may carry momentum for weeks or months even...and the tolerating it is EXTREMELY hard...but eventually they do get a bit bored.

Their behavior is essentially this.  They are attempting to seek and prove dominance of their position by picking on everyone else.  Ironically, they choose the person least interested in the power struggle as their primary target...probably because they are cowards and can't loose (but we won't talk about their moral standards because we already know those are pretty low).  They do this also because their own personal self esteem is so low and weak that they only can boost it by picking on others.  They may LOOK confident but they are anything but.

And some of the other comments are true.  Years later, they will either be begging for jobs from you...or....you will discover them in the local pizza pizza (or like place) taking your order while you talk to someone about whatever important thing your doing.

Seems hard to imagine, it was for me...but it does happen.

[Knight Templar]

Violence is always the answer.


the guy who says "c'mon, let's talk this out like men" well always be kicked. Haven't you paid attention in history?

[Stealth]

Originally posted by StrykeIX
Stealth, that's entirely contextual and you know it. Sloganizing isn't gonna get anyone to listen to you- particularly when the slogan's clearly not true. Didn't you learn anything from grade school?

don't pull an an0n on me with those big words now Stryke...

contextual?  what are you referring to me saying?  that violence isn't a solution?

if so, then i still hold to what i said, and IceFire backed it up... these guys are looking for attention, and they pick on other people... they'll get their payback eventually, you'll see... but fighting them isn't going to work...

1) it's him vs. many people... and he's not Bruce Lee
2) what does that prove?  that he fights and gets beaten?  i'll bet that makes him look like a man doens't it
3) fighting isn't the solution to problems like this...

i still say:  violence isn't a solution to any problem.

[Knight Templar]

*looks at atomic bomb*


sure got the japs to shut up, no? I guess they were already losing.. but the state still stands tall

[Stryke 9]

Maybe you never got in a situation where you could come out fine without fighting and winning, but that is most certainly not the rule in any event. Hormonally-charged ninth graders are kinda rough to be around, particularly when you're one of them, and if someone challenges you to a fight when no adults are looking, there's no graceful way to back out of it without getting in a fight whether you like it or not anyway. Never mind that there are a fair number of... well, we'll just call them stupid people, who honestly really don't get a point unless it's conveyed to them via a sharp jab to the gut and a fist facial, and often that point is quite an important one. I've met only one in my time (real crackead, too, and he kicked my ass), but I am not in the typical group, anyway- my region, most all the kids are just bored young wealthy suburban crackers, not the considerably tougher and more violent sorts I know outside the area, in the DC outskirts.

I suppose if you place pacifism above anything else, including your own well-being, violence is never the answer. But I'm not the pacifist type- with very few exceptions, I do what's necessary to further my own best interest, whatever that is.

[Stealth]

Originally posted by Knight Templar
*looks at atomic bomb*


sure got the japs to shut up, no? I guess they were already losing.. but the state still stands tall

that's not fighting or violence in the level we're talking... that's war, and war's irrational and illogical... everyone knows that... look what's going on with the US and Iraq at the moment.

[Stealth]

Originally posted by Deepblue
Another thing you could do is learn some martial arts. And block everything he does without actually attacking them.

heh... in my school even if you just go defense (i.e. blocking)... you still get in as much trouble as the attacker, because you "participated in the fight"... stupid isn't it.

don't go violence under any circumstances... listen to me kasperl... considering what you've described and your circumstances, never ever think fighting will end everything, cause it won't

Maybe you never got in a situation where you could come out fine without fighting and winning, but that is most certainly not the rule in any event.

Yes I have, and yes, it's very possible to get out of most situations without physically fighting.  Sure you may be called a coward, etc., but if you fight, you're not only lowering yourself down to their level, but the chances you'll get beaten are great.

The only time you actually should fight is when you have to defend yourself and you can't get away (i.e. you're surrounded, cornered, etc.)... otherwise, no.

Hormonally-charged ninth graders are kinda rough to be around, particularly when you're one of them, and if someone challenges you to a fight when no adults are looking, there's no graceful way to back out of it without getting in a fight whether you like it or not anyway.

be the better man:  walk away.  it's usually possible.


you're all encouraging kasperl, who's admitted ther'es MORE THAN ONE PERSON making fun/taunting/etc. him to fight them.  he also says he's smaller than them, but yet you still encourage him to "fight"?  what chance does he have... really...
!?

don't do it

[Knight Templar]

that's not war.. that's Bush. And it is violence. You were talking about violence.. right?

It still applies. If you kick a person's ass, unless they are particularly vengeful, they won't **** with you for the time being. That's how it always worked.

I don't think I'd win any particular fights with a lot of people at my school. Most are either twice my size, in a gang, or so stoned off their ass, they would kill me just because they didn't know what was going on other than a fight.

So, I don't **** with them. The people that I knew where semi-sensible, that don't/didn't liek me for whatever reason, all I did/do is ignore them/help them out when they need it/when i feel like it, and basically be nice to them and I'm fine. I have enough old friends and new ones where I'm "secure" and I don't think I'd have to worry if I got picked on to where I couldn't handle it. Friends, other than really good ones that you do stuff with are semi pointless and argueably a waste of effort, but it helps to have groups around that stick up for each other. I kinda learned that a few years ago, and have been "experimenting" ever since, and it seems to work fine.

Argueably, violence isn't the most effective way of getting a point across, but then again, when you're dealing with idiots, neither are words or pacifism.

[Stryke 9]

Stealth: I'm not talking about times when you'll be called chicken**** if you walk away. I'm talking about times when, if you turn your back, you're going to find yourself very suddenly with your nose into the wall and your back feeling like it's about to snap 'cos someone's got their foot on it, pressing it at an odd angle to the wall, while said someone pounds away at you from behind. Me, I'm not into gestures if it means a severe tactical disadvantage when the fight inevitably starts.

And I'm not encouraging him to fight. I'm just pointing out that stretching the truth in order to back up some blanket statement isn't exactly demonstrating reliabaility, and that since everyone knows there are times that fighting is not only the solution, but something that cannot be avoided, denying that fact just discredits you, and makes ANYONE less likely to pay attention to what you have to say.

There are times for fighting, and times for not fighting. If you're weaker than the person you're fighting, common sense alone would dictate that it's best to avoid getting physical. Most of the time, this is the case no matter what. But not always. And it's usually handy to be ready for that "not always".

[Stealth]

that's not war.. that's Bush. And it is violence. You were talking about violence.. right?

realize that governments are generally corrupt, and what they tell the public when it comes to this are also generally lies.

It still applies. If you kick a person's ass, unless they are particularly vengeful, they won't **** with you for the time being. That's how it always worked.

possibly, but:
1) what if it's not just one person... in kasperl's case there's multiple people... want to go on a rampage kicking half the school's ass?
2) what if you lose?  quite a big possibility in kasperl's case.

I don't think I'd win any particular fights with a lot of people at my school. Most are either twice my size, in a gang, or so stoned off their ass, they would kill me just because they didn't know what was going on other than a fight.

Argueably, violence isn't the most effective way of getting a point across, but then again, when you're dealing with idiots, neither are words or pacifism.

right, but when those 'idiots' you're dealing with can kick your ass, you don't mess with them.

even so, back in 9th grade there was a bully and he and his friends (well, his friends watched and laughed) on one occasion waited when i was coming out for lunch, and then just started pushing me! (this guy was a wrestler, he was a few inches taller than me... at the time i was only about 5'9", and he weighed a good 50 pounds more than me: two factors that guarantee a loss) then (get this) as i kept walking, ignoring him, he came up, grabbed my shoulder, turned me around, and punched me in the chin, can you believe it?  he did that twice.  i stood there, and looked at him dancing around with his hands up like a boxer, then turned and walked away.  obviously for a day or so he talked about how i was a coward and didn't want to fight because i'd get my ass kicked, etc. and he even wanted to meet me somewhere (at my choice of location and time) to fight me! hehehe... i still to this day don't know why he wanted to fight me... beats me!

yeah, but still, if you don't fight, people eventually respect you for not lowering yourself down to other people's level.  fighting isn't the answer Knight Templar... don't let movies and self-defense classes fool you, they're really not: regardless whether you know how to fight or not

[Stealth]

Stealth: I'm not talking about times when you'll be called chicken**** if you walk away. I'm talking about times when, if you turn your back, you're going to find yourself very suddenly with your nose into the wall and your back feeling like it's about to snap 'cos someone's got their foot on it, pressing it at an odd angle to the wall, while said someone pounds away at you from behind.

i apologize, i thought you meant walking away when you've been pushed/challenged/etc. was stupid.

yeah, obviously if you can't get away (see a few posts up what i said) and you know you can't turn your back then you fight back in self-defense (note!)

And I'm not encouraging him to fight. I'm just pointing out that stretching the truth in order to back up some blanket statement isn't exactly demonstrating reliabaility, and that since everyone knows there are times that fighting is not only the solution, but something that cannot be avoided, denying that fact just discredits you, and makes ANYONE less likely to pay attention to what you have to say.

if you're not encouraging him to fight then why even bring up the thought!  he's managed without fighting until now, let him realize that it's not going to work now!

There are times for fighting, and times for not fighting. If you're weaker than the person you're fighting, common sense alone would dictate that it's best to avoid getting physical. Most of the time, this is the case no matter what. But not always. And it's usually handy to be ready for that "not always".

yeah, well there's been plenty of times i can remember that i could've fought someone (i.e. someone "challenged" me that i know i could beat) but i turn and walk away.
one occasion i remember clearly was about 6 months ago, in the halls, i was walking, and suddenly these two freshmen (yeah, freshmen, a good 2-3 years younger than me, and a good 6 inches smaller than me) attacked each other right in front of me, and started punching and stuff... they were like locked together, you know... heh... well i kept on walking, it was too late for me to avoid them, and i just seperated them gently (what else could i do, i'm suddenly on top of them... but no one noticed this, no circle was forming, or anything) and i said "c'mon guys...".

i thought nothing of it and kept walking... about 3 steps further, the one smaller guy had run away, this hispanic (mexican) guy (the other one) pushes me from behind! (now that's one thing i can't stand)... he's like "what *****?  what?"... stands his arms out.

now i know, i KNOW i could've destroyed him in about 3 seconds... i'd just seen him "fight" someone, and i knew everything he knew about his fighting style... he had nothing he could use against me that he hadn't used against that other guy, and all he did was plain punch and kick like an animal, so i knew he had no chance.  in that split second i was thinking all the ways i could just put him down and walk away, but that's also considered fighting... what did i do?  i nodded, turned, and walked away.  sure you may get a few "you afraid to fight?" or similar remarks, but in the end you're respected... always.  i'll avoid a fight if at all possible... if there's any way to get out of physically fighting, then i'll take it.

[Knight Templar]

Dude.. i'm not saying you go around kicking everyone's ass who looks at you the wrong way, but in my position, walking away would only get other people on my ass for being a pussy.

So you obviously must have done something to him somehow. Like I said, I can't go around just fighting people, but what i'm impling is that sometimes, you have no choice. I don't really know if Kas can or not.. I still don't see why he doesn't just get a damn backpack like the rest of us, but say someone came up and cornered him with a baseball bat? He supposed to go all Picard on mr. McGuire's ass and talk it out while he gets his ass smacked out of Cardinal Stadium or does he put up an instinctive defense?

Is that unrealistic and movie-like? I think not.

[Stealth]

Originally posted by Knight Templar
Dude.. i'm not saying you go around kicking everyone's ass who looks at you the wrong way, but in my position, walking away would only get other people on my ass for being a pussy.

it just shows how much you know Knight Templar...

how much experience do you have in this by the way?

walking away doesn't make you a pussy, it makes you better than the other person, it makes people respect you.


EDIT:  how many times do i have to say that SELF-DEFENSE ISN"T FIGHTING!!! if you're CORNERED (i must have said this at least three times in this thread) and you CAN"T GET AWAY, then you FIGHT BACK... that's OK, i've only had to do that twice in my life, but that's not fighting, that's self-defense... you FIGHT out of SELF-DEFENSE

[Stryke 9]

Oy gewalt...

Stealth, you've been listening to guidance counselors too long. As I said, I've been on both sides of the equation, and I KNOW that after someone backs out of a fight, the rest of the kids don't stand around going "Boy! Will you look at that! He didn't descend to our moronic level! I really want to be like him some day!". What you see in front of you is about what you get behind you. No respect for pacifism. Hell, I'm not one of the ones so uncomfortable with my own persona that I need to bother others, and I'm STILL rooting for the kid getting messed with to take a swing once in a while. Pacifism... well, you're no Ghandi for not getting into a schoolyard brawl, and they know it.

'Course, worrying about respect from guys who have nothign better to do than attack other people unprovoked in order to feel badass isn't really too high on priorities for most.

[Knight Templar]

Originally posted by Stealth


it just shows how much you know Knight Templar...

how much experience do you have in this by the way?

walking away doesn't make you a pussy, it makes you better than the other person, it makes people respect you.


EDIT:  how many times do i have to say that SELF-DEFENSE ISN"T FIGHTING!!! if you're CORNERED (i must have said this at least three times in this thread) and you CAN"T GET AWAY, then you FIGHT BACK... that's OK, i've only had to do that twice in my life, but that's not fighting, that's self-defense... you FIGHT out of SELF-DEFENSE [/B]

Bullies usually come in groups dude. Groups don't usually let you leave. And leaving would only worsen your situation. being mocked and chased after by more "badasses" would be the end result of somebody weaker walking away from a fight. They only way you would get respect for running away is if you are noticibly stronger than your would be challenger.


I agree with Strykey here, and the best thing is to not get in a fight at all if you can't handle it or don't want to. Walking away works great for unwanted drugs, alchohol, cigarettes, drunk driving and all that stuff, but it can seriously back fire if you do it wrong in a fight.

EDIT: err.. experiance? I make it a point to observe. I've seen similiarly descirbed situations, hell a dude in my first period almost got in a fight with this big ass red neck the other day over Football IIRC. He hid behind his umbrella while Mr. Hick chewed him, out. Now while acting like a pussy was problably the best course of action for him, he would have done well to not piss off somebody he couldn't handle in the first place.

Now I know if it were over something "real" like a girl, family or personal attack, Mr. Red Neck would've went after his ass until he felt he'd hurt him enough. That's how it works.

So one more time.. Why can't he get a back pack? Hell if you still want to be an outsider, but don't want a back pack, you could always get one of those queer little rolling backpacks.. although I find those reason enough to start a fight with someone.

[Stryke 9]

You wanna watch out for the guys with the rolling backpacks. With the handles extended and full of books, they make vicious weapons. Particularly mine, got these big metal legs that were ground down by the concrete, so they're all sharp and ****...

[Knight Templar]

*feels uncontrolable urge to gouge stryke's eyes out with a rusty crowbar*