Author Topic: One word  (Read 21731 times)

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Offline Stealth

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Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar


Well duh.. :lol: why would anyone else be more biased to an American view than America?:D


:D

well in Italy, and many other countries i've been to, the media doesn't take sides with anyone, they just say what's going on

  

Offline Stealth

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well hey i really got to go now.  keep up the discussion, i think i'll probably stop in when i have the time.  my car also needs a carburator, so i'm going to spend a good hour and a half after work removing the old one, refitting the jets, etc. and installing it again... so i'll probalby check back tomorrow.

peace out guys :D

 

Offline Knight Templar

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Originally posted by Stealth
i'm still trying to find where i said (according to Stryke) that the media is being fed by the government



Here, let me help you. :)

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Originally posted by Stealth
very good point Tiara, but realize we're not arguing, we're discussing. everyone knows (apparently everyone but KT) that American media is biased, because the government controls it.[/u]DG is asking my opinion on something, which i gave him. no arguing.


I think  you are going to be late for work. :nod:
« Last Edit: July 15, 2003, 05:10:00 pm by 675 »
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"I don't want to get laid right now. I want to get drunk."- Mars

Too Long, Didn't Read

 

Offline Stryke 9

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Whole lotta miscommunication goin' on.


I blame Stealth.:D

 

Offline diamondgeezer

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Originally posted by Stealth
i said "MOST people"

By which you mean 51% or more of the population, I can only assume.

Millions of people 'went missing' in Iraq under Saddam. That may represent a small percentage of the total populace and obviously it means that 'most' people were relatively happy - but it's still unacceptable in my own view.

I say **** the WMD debate - there was reason enough to take the guy out without him threatening the region with chemical missiles. I know that UN law prohibits the invasion of a country for the express purpose of regime change, but allowing Saddam to continue to rule his evil little empire would be like ignoring the guy down the road who beats up his wife and kids. Just because he does it on private property doesn't make it tolerable. I'd be the guy organising the lads to go kick his door down and drag him to the cop shop :nod:

 

Offline Stryke 9

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Hoo boy. And I bet you believe in tracking down and lynching murderers who don't get convicted, eh?

Yep, it's ol' Wild West all over again.

 

Offline Stryke 9

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Incidentially, how many of you who think it's okay we invaded the country on false pretexts wanted Clinton to go down for lying about sex?

 

Offline Knight Templar

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Copyright ©1976, 2003, KT Enterprises. All rights reserved

"I don't want to get laid right now. I want to get drunk."- Mars

Too Long, Didn't Read

 

Offline Tiara

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:eek2:

In my entire stay here on HLP I have never seen so many miscommunications, arguments unsupported by facts and just plain dumb arguments. :blah:
I AM GOD! AND I SHALL SMITE THEE!



...because I can :drevil:

 

Offline diamondgeezer

Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
Hoo boy. And I bet you believe in tracking down and lynching murderers who don't get convicted, eh?

Yep, it's ol' Wild West all over again.

Stryke, I don't mean the people need to take the law in to their own hands all the time, but sometimes you have a situation where nothing will be done if you don't take action yourself. Saddam was, frankly, and evil man who needed removing from power - and if you don't agree with that statement than I won't bother continuing to debate this with you.

 

Offline Stealth

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Originally posted by diamondgeezer

Stryke, I don't mean the people need to take the law in to their own hands all the time, but sometimes you have a situation where nothing will be done if you don't take action yourself. Saddam was, frankly, and evil man who needed removing from power - and if you don't agree with that statement than I won't bother continuing to debate this with you.



oooh, so you think the reason America invaded Iraq was to help the poor, oppressed people?  really?  

OK, so how about the many other times where thousands were dying and the US didn't bat an eye.  how about Rwanda a few years ago, where MILLIONS were being slaughtered, and what did the US do?  nothing.  i'm sorry, but believe it or not the US did not invade Iraq to help the people.  this is what i mean by American media.  from what you hear and see on TV in America, this is what you see, but if you live ANYWHERE else in the world, and watch TV or news, you'll find it pretty obvious that that's not why America invaded Iraq.

in case you don't know, it's because of the oil.

 

Offline Tiara

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Quote
Originally posted by Stealth
in case you don't know, it's because of the oil.

:blah: Not... again... :blah:
I AM GOD! AND I SHALL SMITE THEE!



...because I can :drevil:

 

Offline CP5670

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Yep, it's ol' Wild West all over again.


Exactly, and it has always been so. Those with power have enough sense to wield it to their advantage, duh. :p

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well in Italy, and many other countries i've been to, the media doesn't take sides with anyone, they just say what's going on


But that's impossible, because then they would go out of business. As Stryke said, the media services are just commercial enterprises like any others; they write whatever the majority of the people want to hear. There is no such thing as unbiased news service, even relatively speaking among the "free" countries.

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In my entire stay here on HLP I have never seen so many miscommunications, arguments unsupported by facts and just plain dumb arguments.


lol, you haven't seen anything yet; this is fairly good compared to some of the other stuff around here. :D

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in case you don't know, it's because of the oil.


I must have dealt with this argument about five times now and said why it made no sense. Do you have a short memory or something? :p

They did it neither for saving people nor for oil, but purely for their geopolitical interests, which is why every single war in history has been fought.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2003, 09:36:11 am by 296 »

 

Offline Tiara

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Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
lol, you haven't seen anything yet; this is fairly good compared to some of the other stuff around here. :D

Ok, the religion and Iraqi war threads beat this one.... :p
I AM GOD! AND I SHALL SMITE THEE!



...because I can :drevil:

 

Offline Stealth

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Quote
Originally posted by CP5670

I must have dealt with this argument about five times now and said why it made no sense. Do you have a short memory or something? :p

They did it neither for saving people nor for oil, but purely for their geopolitical interests, which is why every single war in history has been fought.


OK, what fantasy world are you living in... Why else would America attack Iraq?  Not to help them, so Iraq must have had something they wanted, right?  Right... Oil.  We all know America didn't invade Iraq just to help their people or their government, because what would America get out of that?

Once again, the media says nothing about America not being interested in Iraq's oil, and you therefore think they're not interested in it.  so tell me why America invaded Iraq?  What did Iraq do to America?  

You know, if you read around, you'll find that throughout this war in Iraq, there's been so much looting of places.  You know the dozens of hospitals, museums, historical districts, etc. that were looted in front of American troops' eyes while they stood there and did nothing?  Do you REALLY think they're interested in the country?  did you also know that the only buildings and places that were NOT looted (were protected by American troops) were those involved with oil?  funny coincidence?


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But that's impossible, because then they would go out of business. As Stryke said, the media services are just commercial enterprises like any others; they write whatever the majority of the people want to hear. There is no such thing as unbiased news service, even relatively speaking among the "free" countries.


No, believe it or not, some people want media to report the truth about events, not the biased, "what the people want" view.  seriously, have you gone to any other European country CP?  obviously not, because what you're telling me has no fact behind it, it's what you think, not what you've experienced.

 

Offline diamondgeezer

Stealth, the US invaded Iraq for their own reasons I'm sure. But Saddam got kicked out and that was the result I was looking for. That was the reason I supported the war.

 

Offline Stealth

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Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Stealth, the US invaded Iraq for their own reasons I'm sure. But Saddam got kicked out and that was the result I was looking for. That was the reason I supported the war.


yeah, that's cool. i supported it too, but i didn't really support the reasons they did it.  i guess to an extent they had good intentions, and Saddam wasn't a good ruler, in fact he was terrible, sure, but look at the condition the people are in now.  hostpitals, museums, everything's destroyed, and if it's not destroyed, it's looted.  i'm sure America's going to help them rebuild, but i really feel sorry for those people.

 

Offline CP5670

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OK, what fantasy world are you living in... Why else would America attack Iraq?  Not to help them, so Iraq must have had something they wanted, right?  Right... Oil.  We all know America didn't invade Iraq just to help their people or their government, because what would America get out of that?


I think you are the one living in a fantasy world, one where people forget what they hear in a month. :D Look at the amount of money they have spent with this war already and then compare it to the currently estimated worth of all of the Iraqi oil (there are various stats on this on the internet, although I cannot remember the exact numbers right now). Then tell me why they did not invade Saudi Arabia instead, which has twice the amount of oil and a tenth of the military power. And now find me a single war in history that has been fought purely for money. The oil thing is a pretty silly excuse, maybe only given for lack of anything better.

Now try to remember this for a month until the next argument, okay? :D

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Once again, the media says nothing about America not being interested in Iraq's oil, and you therefore think they're not interested in it.  so tell me why America invaded Iraq?  What did Iraq do to America?  


On the flip side, since the media says nothing about oil (which is not quite true, by the way, as before the war the oil is about all they talked about), you therefore think that they are interested in it. Yeah, that makes sense. :D

Anyway, we invaded Iraq because its political interests ran contrary to ours in some way or another. The exact reasons are unknown to us (for that you will need to ask some high foreign policy officials), but we can say with certainty that they are political, because nothing else would make any sense. For example, Iraq was the only country in the world after 9/11 to officially say that they supported the "terrorist" actions (even Afghanistan went with everyone else). Of course, this does not say anything about their involvement, but it shows that they are willing to operate against us in the open and therefore makes them dangerous. This alone would not be enough of course; perhaps there was some evidence that they had the WMDs as well. And if you tell me that our not finding any WMDs is any evidence whatsoever that they did not have them, I will really be convinced that you are amnesiac or something. :D

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You know, if you read around, you'll find that throughout this war in Iraq, there's been so much looting of places.  You know the dozens of hospitals, museums, historical districts, etc. that were looted in front of American troops' eyes while they stood there and did nothing?  Do you REALLY think they're interested in the country?  did you also know that the only buildings and places that were NOT looted (were protected by American troops) were those involved with oil?  funny coincidence?


Where exactly did I say that they are interested in the welfare of Iraq? Of course they are not. They are interested in their own goals. It's just that these goals have nothing to do with oil.

Also, what exactly can be easily stolen inside an oil refinery? If you had a choice between raiding an oil plant containing heavy processing machinery weighing hundreds of tons and a museum containing ancient artifacts worth millions on black markets, where would you go?

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No, believe it or not, some people want media to report the truth about events, not the biased, "what the people want" view. seriously, have you gone to any other European country CP? obviously not, because what you're telling me has no fact behind it, it's what you think, not what you've experienced.


Actually, I don't have to, since my dad subscribes to a bunch of these international economics newspapers (mostly british, french and swedish ones) which I occasionally take a look at since they also have some political stuff. Anyway, what "some people" want is not important; what the majority wants is what counts, since they are the ones who will bring in the most profits. At the moment, maybe the majority wants news that shows how evil the US is, but that does not say anything about the news service or what is actually happening. Once again, you seem to be forgetting that the media services are just companies and their sole aim is to make money, not provide accurate information. Now if you met a random guy on the street and told him what you thought of him, do you think he would like it if you called him a intelligent and good man or if you called him an evil moron? The same applies to people reading news about their country and its stance on things.

Well, that was fun. Let's keep those arguments coming. :D
« Last Edit: July 16, 2003, 10:16:13 am by 296 »

 

Offline Stealth

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And now find me a single war in history that has been fought purely for money. The oil thing is a pretty silly excuse, maybe only given for lack of anything better.


and tell me, CP, what is oil? what's it worth?

it's like saying gold isn't money.  i mean c'mon, use your head.


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Look at the amount of money they have spent with this war already and then compare it to the currently estimated worth of all of the Iraqi oil


i think the US underestimated Iraq's resistance.  remember that before they attacked they made sure Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction, i think they thought there'd be little fight.


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Then tell me why they did not invade Saudi Arabia instead, which has twice the amount of oil and a tenth of the military power


as far as i know America already gets oil from Saudi Arabia, so attacking it would be pointless.  Iraq, because of Saddam, they
weren't getting any oil from.  it makes sense i think.


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And if you tell me that our not finding any WMDs is any evidence whatsoever that they did not have them, I will really be convinced that you are amnesiac or something.


no, i'm not saying that, but Iraq was in quite a fix too though.

If they say they had WMDs, America attacks them.
If they say they don't have WMDs, America attacks them.

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Also, what exactly can be easily stolen inside an oil refinery


the point isn't whether they tried, because they did, but they weren't successful thanks to the troops protecting them.  also tell me what can be sold in the "black market" from a hospital...  a lung machine?


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Once again, you seem to be forgetting that the media services are just companies and their sole aim is to make money, not provide accurate information.

and that's waht i've been saying... don't believe everything you hear on the media, because they are biased!  and you're agreeing with me!

 

Offline diamondgeezer

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Originally posted by Stealth
also tell me what can be sold in the "black market" from a hospital...  a lung machine?

First rule of looting - loot first, think later