Author Topic: Theories, Post 'Em In Here!  (Read 10505 times)

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Offline TrashMan

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Quote
Originally posted by Odyssey
[color=cc9900]Congratulations, you just contradicted yourself. You don't trust Stephen, but you do on this one matter. Useful, eh?[/color]


I said i disagree with SOME of his ideas.. Nobody is right all the time... You are really looking for needles in the haystack! Tsk, tsk, tsk...:lol:

KAJORAMA: Yes, he could, but why did he then create such laws that don't permit it? Of course, he could just change the whole reality and laws, and we would have never known...

GENRYU:What the early christians did, and what is the core of Christianity are two completely different things....
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Offline aldo_14

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What makes you think your interpretation of the 'core' of Christianity is any more correct that of -  for example -  Torquemada?

 

Offline TrashMan

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Should I even bother to answer such a question?

No.. I won't dignify it with a response...
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline Odyssey

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[color=cc9900]Trashman, I'm not looking for needles in a haystack, unless the haystack is 99% needles. Sure, nobody is right all the time, which is exactly why you shouldn't base your whole argument around their words.
You really ought to dignify aldo with a response. He's got a ruddy good point. What have you got to lose by answering? A lot less than what you've got to lose by going off in a huff.[/color]

 

Offline Ghostavo

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Odyssey... didn't he just respond? LOL :D

Now I think I've just had a revelation about Capella! I beliebe that the shivans were actually lured in there by same strange readings that the GTVA was having...

If anyone here has played Starflight in the old genesis (or mega-drive), they will know more or less what I'm talking about.

Like some say, the shivans are a consequence of a bigger problem, now maybe "blasting" Capella was trying to solve part of that problem.

So now this is where I diverge into 2 theories, either Freespace 2 has more or less the same story that Starflight story and the star have some sort of "plague" and either the star are dying and the shivans trying to stop the plague from spreading.... or... more interesting... the shivans are trying to prevent something from happening!

P.S.
This is entirely fictional, has not a thing about pure logic and science, exactly like Starflight! :D

The thing about this theory (which is entirely made to explain what happened in Capella, nothing more) is that it doesn't match what the good ol' Admiral is saying in the end (which I still don't understand where he got that kind of information or if he is just making up theories along the way), and doesn't explain the wars...
"Closing the Box" - a campaign in the making :nervous:

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Offline Lightspeed

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Quote
Originally posted by Ghostavo
Now I think I've just had a revelation about Capella! I beliebe that the shivans were actually lured in there by same strange readings that the GTVA was having...

[...]

So now this is where I diverge into 2 theories, [...] or... more interesting... the shivans are trying to prevent something from happening!

P.S.
This is entirely fictional, has not a thing about pure logic and science, exactly like Starflight! :D

The thing about this theory (which is entirely made to explain what happened in Capella, nothing more) is that it doesn't match what the good ol' Admiral is saying in the end (which I still don't understand where he got that kind of information or if he is just making up theories along the way), and doesn't explain the wars...


It could have all been so easier if you had read my first post in this thread :)

Let me quote:

Quote
With the universe at the brink of collapse, the shivans had to act immediately.

Back to our example. A large explosion at the barrier can have enough force to split both liquids, destroying part of it, but preventing the barrier to collapse completely.

The shivans launched their Sathanas capships for Capella.
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Offline Ghostavo

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But... I said they were lured, you said the had already planned moving there.

You said something about a barrier, destroying both worlds unless it was done, etc... I didn't refer to these and said instead that they were trying to prevent something from happening, not specifying what it was on the 2nd theory... but I meant that the star was going to do something or cause something, that was why I said the shivans were lured. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.


Although some diferences you made me see that both theories are not that diferent, and instead very alike... have you ever played Starflight? ;)
"Closing the Box" - a campaign in the making :nervous:

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Offline karajorma

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Hmmmm I do like the theory that the shivans weren't responsible for Capella and in fact were trying to prevent something from happening (would also explain why not all the Saths managed to leap out in time to avoid distruction!) :D

The question is, did Bosch know what was going to happen?
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Offline TrashMan

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I don't know about you, but to me the meaning of beeing a Christian is very simple:

Do good to others, regardless of their belief, race or anything else

This was so straight forward that I don't even know why you asked that question? Why don't you just read the New Testemony in the Bible?
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

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Offline Genryu

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I think I'm going to piss you off, TrashMan, but first, I'd like to say that this isn't about you, it's about christianism in general.
That being said, I'm sure that people who call themselves christian would also be looking into the Old Testament, also in the Bible, which clearly state "an eye for an eye".
Welle, it isn't about christianism but more with religion in general and the hypocrisy which the people in charge generally show.
That being said, and to try to steer this topic into the original direction, I'm also of the opinion that the Shivans weren't really trying to wipe out the GTVA at Capella. If they really wanted that, the number of Sathanas present would have been more than enough to wipe out all the military facing them.
One of my pet theory is that the Shivan know that the race facing them know that the best way to counter them is to collapse the nodes that let them arrive. And this way, they could be protecting the other race from the true destroyer, who could be coming from subspace (or freespace, as it is also known and could explain the title), or simply be battling the Shivans in the same system the GTVA found the Shivans.
Man is making better fool proof machines everyday. Nature is making bigger fools everyday. So far, Nature is winning.
- Albert Einstein
"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?"
- Gandhi

 

Offline TrashMan

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Interesting theory...

Alltough I don't belive Shivans are proteting the GTVA, for they could have just said - watch out. Instead they are communicating via plasma burns.

GENRYU: - I prefer the new testemony. You must allso note, that the Bibl was written by humans, after beeing passed on from generation to generation verbaly. And like a story tends to change the more people it passes (like fisher's tale - it was THIS big!..), so are elements in the Bilbe present (and in every book of old religions) that have been changed.

The new testemony was written allmost imidiately after the said events took place, so it's far more acurate. That's why, alltough I like the Odl testament, I don't take it too seriously...

The current Pope is the best one ever. If you can find something wrong with him, then boy - you need therapy pronto!
And if you are refering to some embers of the church clergy that are rotten/bad - that happens everywhere and neither the church is imunne. Alltough speeking in percentages, it happens less often.
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Offline karajorma

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Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
The current Pope is the best one ever. If you can find something wrong with him, then boy - you need therapy pronto


How about the fact that he got Pope Pius XII sainted despite the fact that he did next to nothing to help the jews during the holocaust? Even though allied leaders repeatedly asked him to do speak out and tell the german catholics what was going on?

How about the fact that the catholic church has helped the spread of AIDS in Africa by warning people not to use condoms because they are permeable to HIV even though the WHO has repeatedly told them that this is not true?

How about the fact that the Vatican has been instrumental in getting a law passed in El Salvador that bans abortions
even to save the life of the mother?

The current pope is a complete bastard willing to let millions of people die a horrible painful death rather than have them use condoms. He'll even go so far as to spread lies about the science involved. And this is supposed to be God's infallible representative on Earth?
« Last Edit: January 03, 2004, 07:07:16 pm by 340 »
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Offline Antares

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I feel I would be remiss in my duties as a lurker if I did not include a link to the most elaborate and convoluted Shivan theory of all time.  It's currently under semi-renovation, seeing some editing now and then in preparation for its final re-release, so if things seem disjointed or otherwise weird in some places, that's why.

I won't be viewing any replies in this thread--'cause, damn, man, it's just too long--but I wanted y'all to have as many resources as possible for your fightin'.
We have returned to continue our purification of this galaxy. It is again your turn to be crushed beneath the great force that is the Antaran army. All your petty squabbling with the other beings in this galaxy is meaningless. The Antaran fleet will destroy you all, one by one. You may not surrender. You cannot win. Your only option is death.

 

Offline Ghostavo

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I've been reading you theory carefully for the last... 2 hours!!! :eek2: :shaking: :confused:

There are some points who seem to diverge... instead of one theory you have a lots of them! :D

You say the shivans are, some kind of anti-bodies, energy beings, physical beings (because of the need of a planet, "Cocytus", among other things)...

Then there are some points where I am confused by the data you provide, I will give some examples...

Quote
The "immune system" depiction is not without flaw. Such a theory would suggest that the Shivans are spawned from subspace in overwhelming numbers, in the same manner as immune cells are within the body. While there can be no argument that the Shivans are numerous, their legions cannot be infinite; this would stack the odds in such a way as to automatically doom both Terrans and Vasudans to extinction. So colossally unfair an advantage would be against the trend of balance in nature--not to mention the programmers at Volition, who would probably want to make a gamer feel somewhat less-worthless than this.


The immune cells within a body are not infinite, or else AIDS and other deseases would never be such a problem now would they?

Quote
this theory is strengthened, albeit not much, by the fact that Capella turns green in hue. Yellow star + blue subspace node = green :D


In both my FS the subspace nodes are green, is this a bug? :p

Quote
Comm Node = Life Support


:wtf: If that is true wouldn't we have seen such evidences of them in the great war? Wouldn't it be better to protect such a valuable thing? Snd then you say something which confuses me even more like...

Quote
Secondly, for reasons unknown, the Shivans do not seem capable of sending messages from normal space into subspace.


So... that would mean that they would need to have what? At least one in every sector? And how to get in that sector in the first place?

And so on and on and on...
It seems LightSpeed and you have a very very similar if not identical theory on the shivans... :D
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Offline TrashMan

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Quote
Originally posted by karajorma
The current pope is a complete bastard willing to let millions of people die a horrible painful death rather than have them use condoms. He'll even go so far as to spread lies about the science involved. And this is supposed to be God's infallible representative on Earth?



* removes kajorama from his Christmas list, contacts and everything else*

I DON'T KNOW THIS GUY!


EDIT: And you belive all that ****? And how can anone stop you fom using condoms?
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline karajorma

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Read the links (unless you're scared of going to hell from just associating with anything I say :D ). If you help pass a law making all condoms carry a warning stating that condoms don't prevent the transmision of AIDS who's going to use them?

The only way you'll convince people in Africa to start using condoms is educate people so they know that it could save their lives. The Vatican has not only been unwilling to help in that but has actually prevented it happening by spreading outright lies about their effectiveness.
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Offline pasti

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Ok....

Karajorma and Trash Man: Condoms are  uneffective in 2%....But this comes from  2% condoms being mechanically damaged (by "provider" or user)
Still they are most effective (not prermanent) way to stop "ahem" :) "being father" or getting AIDS/HIV.....
Catholic church forbids using condoms, beacuse You don't need them when You're controlling yourself.....
This is however at least difficult in life of HUMAN and that's why peoplel should be aware of pros of condom!

"How about the fact that he got Pope Pius XII sainted despite the fact that he did next to nothing to help the jews during the holocaust? Even though allied leaders repeatedly asked him to do speak out and tell the german catholics what was going on?"

True!!

But:
That does't mean You should use such "hard" words against him...


Consider this:
Pope is the leader of catholics (religion), yet his function is so important that You should consider him as a politician...
He has big impact on most things (downing of Soviet Union)

Just to have clear situation: I'm an agnostic (leads sonner or later to atheism), any kind of religion is nothing more than "peacegiver" to  people that fear smg (ie. death), for everyone fears smg...
I'm a cold heartbreaker
Fit ta burn and I'll rip
your heart in two
An I'll leave you lyin' on the bed
I'll be out the door before ya wake
It's nuthin' new ta you
'Cause I think we've seen that movie too

Dressing like your sister
Living like a tart
You don't know what you doing
Babe, it must be art

 

Offline Flaser

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....although I wouldn't go as far as to contribute the Soviet Union's fall to him - Gorbachov is a more likely candidate.
"I was going to become a speed dealer. If one stupid fairytale turns out to be total nonsense, what does the young man do? If you answered, “Wake up and face reality,” you don’t remember what it was like being a young man. You just go to the next entry in the catalogue of lies you can use to destroy your life." - John Dolan

 

Offline karajorma

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Quote
Originally posted by pasti
Karajorma and Trash Man: Condoms are  uneffective in 2%....But this comes from  2% condoms being mechanically damaged (by "provider" or user)


I know that. But the Vatican was claiming that the virus was able to pass through the condom as if it wasn't there. In other words it was claiming that condoms were only effective as birth control. That's a blatent lie.

Quote
Originally posted by pasti
But:
That does't mean You should use such "hard" words against him...

Consider this:
Pope is the leader of catholics (religion), yet his function is so important that You should consider him as a politician...


That's basically why I called him that. If I'd called Blair or Bush or any other government leader a bastard for doing something similar no one would have cared. As far as I'm concerned when he does something as despicable as what he did in Africa he doesn't deserve to be treated with any less contempt than any other politician.
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Offline Lightspeed

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Quote
Originally posted by Ghostavo

It seems LightSpeed and you have a very very similar if not identical theory on the shivans... :D


Nah, defianately not.

Especially check the things about:

- Bosch
- The subspace physics are slightly different
- Subspace fights back
- "Whatever those things were, the Shivans have got less of them now." - completely different
- Apocalypse - completely different (and there is no black thing around the star - you can perfectly see the stars)
- Why would the Shivans worry about a Colossus fleet? Wouldn't they already know about Allied fleet strength from experience during the Great War? - completely different
- You're full of it, buddy. The Shivans would never back down from a fight. - completely different
- I'm still a little fuzzy on the whole "Comm Node = Life Support" thing. Can you clarify? - completely different
- Planet Hell - completely different
- If the Shivans can travel to any point in subspace--and, by the same token, any point in normal space--then why don't they just jump their whole fleet into the heart of the GTVA? - completely different


you see, theres a lot of differences.
Modern man is the missing link between ape and human being.