[Rictor]

Sorry Drew, it ain't yours. If you don't like that, take it up with the ARPA guys who made it public in the first place. Maybe, maybe 1/2 of America agree that "its yours". The remaining 7 billion people do not, so you can kindly kiss our collective ass. :D

I'm in favour of the current system; the laws regulating your website are those of the country in which your server is located. This is almost always cheaper in non-US countries, with no draconian RIAA laws and so forth. If Congress is willing to put me in jail for 10 ****ing years for filesharing, then I don't see how anyone can think the US is fit to administrate the Internet.

To me, any attempt to legislate or limit the Internet is a bad thing, to put it mildly. The Internet represent anarchy of information, where anyone can say anything. And thats the way it should stay.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Drew


aye, sry.

BUt still, when those hackers DoSd the DNS servers *here* the world was effected....

Actually, the reason I knew those 3 servers were non-US is because they were one of the 7 most badly affected (IIRc 2 were in US army labs, and the other 2 were US corporate).

Anyways, my point is that the net is way beyond the control of a single country..... it covers the entire globe now, regardless of the physical location of the various DNS'.  Put it this way - would you let China run the internet?  Remember, it's not just about any previous abuses, it's also about preventing future abuse.

NB:  remember that the original design was intended to be secure (int terms of connection) from a massive nuclear attack.  So IMO the network could survive the loss of the US DNSs (probably by relying on the higher level DNS', then adding more DNS' if required) - and it would free up IP adresses by losing the US sites.

[Nico]

Originally posted by Drew


you idiot.

**** you. I don't argue with people who start with insulting me, expecially when they're talking bul****.

Originally posted by Drew
Dont ***** the US cuz they have controls to somthing everybody else wants.

pb is, they don't have control

[aldo_14]

An aside - this is pretty interesting, if a bit beside the point

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/30733.html

[T-Man]

Anyone think "Net Force" when they saw this thread?

This idea does have food sides and bad. On the good side, it will decrease the ammount of hackers and virus's on the net, and allow people to be able to download and converse in peace. Quite frankly, im sick and tired of everyone being so paranoid and thinking that every single download on the Internet is a killer virus. Also, we have to accept that the world is becoming far more reliant on the Internet this lately, its almost becoming another world.

On the down side, the UN needs to be carefull in implimenting this idea. They need to make sure the freedom the current net supplies is still avalible, and that they dont give all the Internet control to one person or country.

Generally however, i would vote yes for such a thing. I'd be happier being able to work on the net without fearing everything.

[Martinus]

[color=66ff00]Drew if you don't can your superiority complex, not to mention your rudeness I'll temp ban you.

Contrary to what you believe the internet is not owned by america and can easily exist without america's backing. It has simply too much influence in every countries infrastructure to be abandoned if america's  input into the network was removed.
[/color]

[Rictor]

Originally posted by aldo_14
An aside - this is pretty interesting, if a bit beside the point

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/30733.html

Hmm, indeed. I briefly browsed the website linked to at the end to the article; interesting stuff.  Got this picture linked to from the website. I saw a better version somewhere, but this is good enough in showing the media monopoly present in the US (and Australia and the UK to an extent).

[Gloriano]

Its our invention. We keep it. (Just like the nuclear bomb was our invention. We kept it, we didnt turn over those over to the UN, thank goodness.) Just like when the government in France makes somthing big, there not gonna want to give it away to some other country or organization. Dont ***** the US cuz they have controls to somthing everybody else wants. Give a case of US abuse of the internet widespread. So far, we havnt caused any problems.

Internet  it ain't yours

nuclear bomb: so why Russian China France etc, has Nuclear bombs

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Drew

Its our invention. We keep it. (Just like the nuclear bomb was our invention. We kept it, we didnt turn over those over to the UN, thank goodness.) Just like when the government in France makes somthing big, there not gonna want to give it away to some other country or organization. Dont ***** the US cuz they have controls to somthing everybody else wants. Give a case of US abuse of the internet widespread.  So far, we havnt caused any problems.

Fine. You keep the internet but Britain wants the TV back then.

Wonders how long America would last without TV. Doesn't give much hope to anything beyond a week.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Holy Imperial Gloriano



Internet  it ain't yours

nuclear bomb: so why Russian China France etc, has Nuclear bombs

The nuclear bomb plans were stolen from the US by russia.

The internet wont be anyones if the UN gets there hands on it. Read the UN decleration of rights. The "rights" to free speech can be taken away if they contradict the UN. If the UN had full control of the biggest open source for information on the planet they will start to regulate content.

[Rictor]

The US already regulates content. Its the difference between a single, highly partisan faction having control and an international one having control. It would be nice if no one had control, but if I had to choose between the US and the UN, I think the answer is obvious. The reason being is that America has always been self-serving with any opwer that they had, so there is no reason to believe they will not be so again - especially given the power that control over the Net gives them. The UN is atleast in theory, impartial since it consists of all nations and therefor is not looking out for any one nation's interests.

_____

Here's a quote I picked up from a book I downloaded (yes, for free) from the website that aldo's article linked to. Interesting stuff, and very cool that the author released it under the Creative Commons licesne, otherwise I doubt I would have read it.

The concentration of power—political, corporate, media, cultural—should be anathema
to conservatives. The diffusion of power through local control,
thereby encouraging individual participation, is the essence
of federalism and the greatest expression of democracy.

[aldo_14]

Of course, several of the key developers of the bomb weren;t American, anyways - 3 were German jews, and one was Italian.

http://www.me.utexas.edu/%7Euer/manhattan/people.html

Also, some info on Soviet development (in some cases apparently ahead of the US) on the H-bomb;
http://www.bullatomsci.org/issues/1996/nd96/nd96khariton.html
(it's worth noting that the stolen US plans did not lead to a working Soviet bomb)

[aldo_14]

Checking summat

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Drew

The internet wont be anyones if the UN gets there hands on it. Read the UN decleration of rights. The "rights" to free speech can be taken away if they contradict the UN. If the UN had full control of the biggest open source for information on the planet they will start to regulate content.

I don;t see the problem....

( http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html )
Specifically;
Article 19.

      Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

And the bit i think you;re referring to;
Article 29.

      (1) Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible.

      (2) In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.

      (3) These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

With relation to - http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/index.html (too long to fully read, natch)
"WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED
to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, and

to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small, and

to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law can be maintained, and

to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,

AND FOR THESE ENDS

to practice tolerance and live together in peace with one another as good neighbours, and

to unite our strength to maintain international peace and security, and

to ensure, by the acceptance of principles and the institution of methods, that armed force shall not be used, save in the common interest, and

to employ international machinery for the promotion of the economic and social advancement of all peoples,

HAVE RESOLVED TO COMBINE OUR EFFORTS TO ACCOMPLISH THESE AIMS

Accordingly, our respective Governments, through representatives assembled in the city of San Francisco, who have exhibited their full powers found to be in good and due form, have agreed to the present Charter of the United Nations and do hereby establish an international organization to be known as the United Nations. "

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]Contrary to what you believe the internet is not owned by america and can easily exist without america's backing. It has simply too much influence in every countries infrastructure to be abandoned if america's  input into the network was removed.
[/color]

That's exactly why I said if they don't like de-facto US control of the Internet, they can route around us. Its pretty simple.

As far as I'm concerned, its our Internet, and the rest of the world plays at our sufferance. However, the net is democratic at a certain level. The kid with the nicest toys loses influence if no one goes to his house to play anymore.

Cut the US out of the loop, and everyone suffers: most of the real content on the internet is housed in the US and produced by US companies. Most of the money going into internet services ends up in the US. That's just the way things are.

The only way to change US dominance over the internet (and have no doubt, we do own it: with control of the ten of the root level DNS servers, it takes precisely one file edit and once 'killall -HUP named' on the primaries to lock out all the rest and undefine the three foreign ones), is to just get out there and start doing it. Someone else needs to setup their own DNS root network. Someone needs to convince all the ISPs to include that network's zones. The backbone providers have to give preferential routing to routes that snub the US network. Countries need to start enforcing rules about geolocation of servers that serve regional pages (no serving .eu domains out of the US and stuff).

Removing the US from the loop is easy. But no one will do it in this decade. Until its done, we still control domain name resolution. We still control the entire domain name system (remember, InterNIC, the supreme domain name authority exists only as long as the US Government allows it to). We control almost every single major intercontinental data trunk in the world. Hell, we control most of the satellites.

All the rest of the kids have to do is refuse to play in our sandbox and pick another kid (or kids) sandbox to play in. Its simple and incredibly difficult at the same time.

[Knight Templar]

All your internet are belong to US


....meh.

[Stealth]

it's true though.  the internet is practically run by the US.  the US invented it, and the US continues to be the stronghold.  it's simple to tell by going to sites like ebay.com or yahoo.com

[Grey Wolf]

Screw the internet. Give us the Internet 2. The universities can go off and develop the Internet 3.

[Stealth]

Originally posted by aldo_14

Anyways, my point is that the net is way beyond the control of a single country.....

look at the statistics of some of the internet backbones and servers to the US

[Xelion]

Its simply this, the UN are not ready for something this big.