Originally posted by karajorma
Then you need to look harder. I was actually for the war. Feel free to check. What I doubted was **** & Blair's ability to run the war properly and more importantly to secure peace in the region afterwards. The fact that there doesn't even appear to have been a plan for what to do in the region after the war ended beyond what a 15 year old could scribble down on a post it note pretty much proves what I thought.
That's because we (the subjective 'we', i.e. the coalition forces) don't seem to understand the difference between a military victory and a political one. You can win one, you can win the other, you cannot win both at the same time. 'They' figured with the defeat of Saddam's armies, the war would be won. I imagine for a great majority of Iraqis, they believe they are better off without him. Now we're left dealing with those who benefitted from his rule, and those who just plain hate the west. Normally, I'd have no issue whatsoever with blowing them off the face of the earth, however, there's a whole bunch of non-combatants inbetween us and and the bad guys, and the bad guys know we won't just write the whole of them off as 'collateral damage', no matter how much the left wants to say we will. It's weakness in us that they will exploit (and have) with impunity.
I'd back all this more if we didn't have President George "He Tried To Kill My Daddy" **** running the disaster.
The simple fact is that I do believe that the US and UK did have a moral duty to go into Iraq. We created Saddam and it was our responsibility to remove him.
A moral responsibility? Sure. We 'created' him? With all due respect, excrement. Seeing as every time I have to have this argument I have deal with issues starting 50-100 years ago, I'm not going to put it all into this post. I already had this argument with someone elsewhere.
If you're interested
My whole issue is with how they planned to clean up afterwards. I don't think anyone should have gone in until they had a concrete plan of how to deal with rebels and how to win the hearts and minds they claimed they wanted to win. Cause the attempt they did make was pathetic.
On that I wholeheartedly agree.
The basis is being funny. You weren't. At all. Anything that mocks patriotic zealotry is funny to me. If someone actually believes I think that way, it's even more funny.
Your calls for nerve gassing, ignoring the Geneva conventions and beheading iraqis just make you look like the emotionally stunted American idiots who believe in that sort of thing. Heh, that's assuming I'm trying to win some kind of popularity contest by having views in line with the majority. If someone gives a hoot enough to find out what I really think of something, they're welcome to simply ask. I certainly won't lie. I already skirted too close to the mod's edge of tolerance once and I got 'creatively' punished for it (yes, I noticed, that was smooth
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Notice the difference between your post suggesting the use of nerve gas and Lib's one suggesting using nukes? I suppose he was being sarcastic too. I'd knock it off if I were you unless you want to find yourself lumped in with people like him all the time cause you're not actually that good at british style sarcasm.
Advice well taken, but I've learned that it really doesn't matter what I say, someone will take offense to it no matter what. In ways, I agree with bits and pieces of what everyone has to say, whether they like it or not
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I'm not blaming you for ****. Didn't say you voted for him either.
Thanks. i'll do me best with my vote in November, though I don't expect our alternate choices will be that much better. Democracy is empowerment for idiots (that's just a little joke...or is it...)
As for politicians who aren't tossers. I doubt I could find anyone who's perfect but Ghandi was pretty good. I've heard very little bad about Nelson Mandela either. Give me a while and I could probably come up with a few more but lets face it, it's a small number. To get anywhere in politics these days you have to be a backstabbing cockbite. By the time these people reach a position of true authority, they've made so many little 'deals' along the way they don't even know what they believe anymore. That's what happens when you deal with abstracts.
Example: Kerry. I would vote for this guy. His plan on outsourcing is brilliant. Companies in the US the outsource overseas will not only have to disclose that they do it, but they lose all tax breaks for doing it. Sounds great. Yeah. You watch him try to get that through a Republican congress. It's smoke and mirrors, nothing more.
I'd rather vote for Jello Biafra. I think forcing businessmen to wear clown suits between the hours of 8am and 5pm is a great idea.
