[Gank]

Parts of Ireland were colonised 400 years ago, theres still fighting today.

[vyper]

Thats mainly because we mismanaged the uprising in Ireland and ppl started lobbing mortars at our PM. Besides that, Ireland really should be at peace by now.

[Gank]

Tell that to the twats up the north, and sure it was only major anyways.

[Black Wolf]

Originally posted by Ghostavo
Correct... unless...
2)Israel nukes palestine, which would make the US and Israel go to war with the rest of the known universe.

3)Palestine nukes Israel (yeah right...) which would make the US really really pissed and nuke over whatever is left of Palestine.
 

For the most part, Palestine = Israel, as far as location goes. The israelis took over palestinian land - meither side can really nuke the other.

[vyper]

[Q]and sure it was only major anyways.[/Q]

Fair point.

[Corsair]

Originally posted by Gank
What the **** are you talking about, Israel is occuping Palestinian territory and conducting ethnic cleansing and the palestinians must make concessions. Israels fighting for survival yet its the palestinians who have been occupied for 40 years, the palestinians whose houses are being demolished daily to make room for jewish settlers, the palestinians who are being fenced into ghettos. You come out with statements like these and have the cheek to question my logic?

So...Israel=Nazi Germany?
Now there's a brilliant comparison. I've heard it before, from Arab friends of mine living in the West Bank. It's a highly intelligent, very well-informed, completely open-minded comparison.
The IDF, for the most part, does not roll through Rafah or Ramallah or any other Palestinian city and run tanks through houses purely for ****s and giggles. There's almost always a reason. Sure, you may not think it's a good reason, but it's not usually senseless violence. It's not purely to scare the crap out of Palestinians and make their lives a living hell.
Settlements, you say? Sharon wants to disband a lot of the settlements. He, and most of Israel, is willing to give up many, if not all, of the settlements in exchange for peace.

Originally posted by ionia23
Barring my own conspiracy theories about announcing the 'capture' of one Osama Bin Laden prior to election day, the Bush administration is finished.

I guess I'm not the only one who's seeing that one coming then? People where I live think I'm a cynical bastard for predicting that...then again, some of them were invited to the Presidential Inaugural Ball in January, 2001.

Originally posted by Gank
You're talking like suicide bombing is the cause of all the problems, its not. Israel has been occuping Gaza and the West Bank since 1967, the first bombing in Israel took place in 1993, 26 years later. Sure they must stop, but the root cause of the problem must be addressed as well.

The first bombing took place in '93? That's crap. What about the First Intifada? And anyway, even if what you're saying is correct, that's because the Palestinians were being supported by the other Arab nations until Syria, Egypt, Jordan, et. al. realized that Israel would keep kicking the **** out of them. And that Israel had the A-bomb and would use it if national survival came into question.

Originally posted by ionia23
Corsair's right. The only way the Palestinians are going to win is to pull a Ghandi.

I'm going to say this in very large, capital letters, just so that everyone understands this.
NOBODY IS GOING TO WIN THIS CONFLICT.
When people talk about winning and losing then compromise doesn't occur. There will only be peace when both sides make some concessions to each other. In effect, they'll both "lose" but in reality they'll both "win" because people will stop dying. I stand by what I said before though. The Palestinians must make the first step if they want peace.

[Falcon X]

(double post)

[Falcon X]

Man you sound like the teachers who refuse to let kids play dodgeball because there is a winner and a loser.

I agree with the palestinians pulling a Ghandi thing.  The only way we (the USA) can still support the Israelies is because the palestinians are using terrorist tactics.  [best british accent] It's just not civilized [/best british accent]  The minute they say... hey we'll just not hit back... the Israelies are screwed.  They will be forced to compromise just as so many powers have been.

[Knight Templar]

Teachers around my parts usually didn't let children play dodgeball because they'd get hurt.

[ionia23]

so that would mean...no capture the flag, crack the whip, suicide, wallball, smear the queer (which I'm sure has been renamed), dodgeball, doubledodgeball, tackle football, red rover...

What's that leave?  Freakin' Chutes n' Ladders?  CANDYLAND?  

cripes...a couple of skinned knees and it's Lawsuit Time.  f*** this place....

[Knight Templar]

Capture the Flag: The object of CTF isn't to hurt the other person...

Crack the whip:

Suicide: Sure as hell wouldn't get into public schools with that name.

Wallball: Not sure what this is either.

Smear the Queer: Probably. I don't remember what it is at any rate.

Doubledogeball:

Red Rover: Again, object isn't to hurt each other.

Football being the exception... because... uh... it's an institution.... yeah, that's it.

[Ghostavo]

They don't let you play dodgeball? Because you'd get hurt?


*passes out*

[ionia23]

Originally posted by Knight Templar
Capture the Flag: The object of CTF isn't to hurt the other person...

Crack the whip: - A bunch of kids join hands in a long line.  They all start running.  The idea is to get the other end to swing around like a whip and fling other kids off.  Last kid standing wins.  Lots of scraped knees and the occasional concussion, but a hell of a lot of fun.

Suicide: Sure as hell wouldn't get into public schools with that name.  A group of kids throw a racketball at a wall, someone has to catch it  If you catch but drop the ball, you have to run and touch the wall before someone else tags you with the racketball.  If you make it, you get the ball.  If they miss, they're the target.  If you get hit, it hurts like hell and you're out.

Wallball: Not sure what this is either.  Same as Suicide but played with a much larger ball.

Smear the Queer: Probably. I don't remember what it is at any rate.  One kid has a ball.  He can toss it to anyone he wants, but while he has the ball, everyone else tries to tackle him.  Sort of like rugby with no point whatsoever.

Doubledogeball:  A bunch of players stand in the middle of, say, a basketball court or whatever, with players lined up on either side, each side with 1 ball.  They try to hit people in the middle.  If you get hit, you're 'out'.  Outed players join the lines on either side of the field.  After awhile, you add more balls.  Up to six.  The poor kid at the end has to dodge six balls being through by a whole lot of people.  

Red Rover: Again, object isn't to hurt each other.  Oh you can, you can.  I've been clotheslined more than a few times.  Plus, I was a pretty big kid.  I had no issues barreling over someone to get through.

Football being the exception... because... uh... it's an institution.... yeah, that's it.

[Gank]

Originally posted by Corsair

So...Israel=Nazi Germany?
Now there's a brilliant comparison. I've heard it before, from Arab friends of mine living in the West Bank. It's a highly intelligent, very well-informed, completely open-minded comparison.

Who the **** mentioned Nazis?

Originally posted by Corsair
The IDF, for the most part, does not roll through Rafah or Ramallah or any other Palestinian city and run tanks through houses purely for ****s and giggles. There's almost always a reason. Sure, you may not think it's a good reason, but it's not usually senseless violence. It's not purely to scare the crap out of Palestinians and make their lives a living hell.

But thats exactly what it does. And their reasons are security, security for the settlements they've built on palestinian land.

Originally posted by Corsair
Settlements, you say? Sharon wants to disband a lot of the settlements. He, and most of Israel, is willing to give up many, if not all, of the settlements in exchange for peace.

No they're not, His withdrawal plan from a few settlements in Gaza was voted down by his party. And if you follow the links above, you'll see they're still stealing palestinian land right at this very minute.

Originally posted by Corsair
The first bombing took place in '93? That's crap.

www.google.com, why dont you check things out before you open your mouth. Here let me do it for you:
http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/mfaarchive/2000_2009/2002/7/Suicide%20Terror-%20Its%20use%20and%20rationalization%20-%20July

Originally posted by Corsair
What about the First Intifada?

There were no suicide bombs in Israel during the first intifada, is this hard for you to understand?

Originally posted by Corsair
And anyway, even if what you're saying is correct, that's because the Palestinians were being supported by the other Arab nations until Syria, Egypt, Jordan, et. al. realized that Israel would keep kicking the **** out of them. And that Israel had the A-bomb and would use it if national survival came into question.

Riiight It amazes me how the same people who are quick to point out Israel has won every war against the arabs can shout how Israel is fighting for survival.  

Originally posted by Corsair
When people talk about winning and losing then compromise doesn't occur. There will only be peace when both sides make some concessions to each other. In effect, they'll both "lose" but in reality they'll both "win" because people will stop dying. I stand by what I said before though. The Palestinians must make the first step if they want peace.

Lets get this straight, the Israelis are occuping palestinian land, dispossing the people and colonising it, and its the palestinians who must make concessions? Thats not going to happen. In 1993, the palestinians recognised Israels right to exist, 11 years later they're still under occupation and the colonising is continuing, why the **** should they make any concessions?

[ionia23]

Originally posted by Gank

Lets get this straight, the Israelis are occuping palestinian land, dispossing the people and colonising it, and its the palestinians who must make concessions? Thats not going to happen. In 1993, the palestinians recognised Israels right to exist, 11 years later they're still under occupation and the colonising is continuing, why the **** should they make any concessions?

They'll have to.  Jerusalem.  IMHO, so will Israel.  Jerusalem.

[Gank]

They already made that concession but it fell apart because the Israelis wanted control of the Al-Aqsa Mosque. Cant say I really blame the Palestinians for not wanting to leave it in Israeli hands given the number of times its been attacked by jewish fanatics wanting to clear the way for their third temple.

[Falcon X]

Originally posted by Knight Templar
Teachers around my parts usually didn't let children play dodgeball because they'd get hurt.

If you get hurt in dodgeball... that's saying something.

[TrashMan]

Just to set things straight... I don't see neither Israel or USA as evil countries... that would simply be stupid..

I see their current regime as being total tards (and in some ways, a PART of the population)..

--------------------
As far as agresive countries go:
My country has a 1300 year long histroy and we NEVER attacked another country...NEVER... We were allways too busy defending ourselves (eight centuries of turkish invasions had thier toll...lot's a large portion of land..but kept them away from west Europe with minimal or no help...)
It's something to be damn proud of...

---------------------------
And about that gay thing....
I see homosexuality as either:
A) a sickness, in which case it should be cured
OR
B) Consious decision, which makes things worse...

[Grey Wolf]

Why should you even really care? In my opinion, if it doesn't affect you, why should you care about anyone else's lifestlye? It's their life. Shouldn't affect you at all.

[Corsair]

I give up. It's impossible to make a point around here, especially when you're dealing with...
yeah. Not gonna go there. Forget it.

Just one thing for Grey Wolf. Why do I care?
First of all, I know a ****load of people on both sides of that conflict. They deal with this crap every single day of their lives. I know kids who are afraid to ride the bus because they think they might get blown up. I know a kid who makes sure to sit right next to the bus driver every time he gets on the bus because he believes that that's where he's got the best chance of surviving an explosion. I know kids who can't leave their houses because of IDF curfews. I know kids who've lost their homes, lost their property, have parents who've lost jobs, who can't get to work, and who've had to pick up and move to Jordan. I'd say I've got an interest.
So, Gank. You think I don't understand what's going on there? I know damn well more than you do. I've heard the stories first-hand. I've done everything short of lived it myself.

Oh, and one more reason why I care. I'm Jewish. When all else fails, Israel will be a place that will welcome me in and give me citizenship. If, God forbid, the 1930s and '40s happen all over again, I know that I've got a country that won't give a flying ****. I know that I've got somewhere to go. See, I've got a home that won't discriminate against me.
Jews do need a homeland, despite what people say. Israel may be a bit "racist" or discriminatory or whatever, but that's because it was founded with a reason in mind. It wasn't founded so that 75 years later the Muslims would outnumber the Jews and take control. It was founded so that, for the first time in well over 2000 years, Jewish people everywhere would have somewhere to go in a time of trouble.
I don't know. Maybe nobody's ever made jokes about your religion, asked if your dad was an accountant, rolled a quarter along the floor to your feet while you were up in front of the whole school making a speech, or done something else stupid. Maybe they have. If you've had that experience where a part of your identity is insulted, then you know the feeling that I'm talking about. Maybe not. But if you haven't then don't start with me.