Author Topic: Freedom of Peaceful Assembly is a thing of the past  (Read 11101 times)

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Offline Ford Prefect

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Freedom of Peaceful Assembly is a thing of the past
I haven't been able to confirm this, but it is my understanding that by the standards of its health care system, the United States ranks as a Second World nation.
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline Grey Wolf

Freedom of Peaceful Assembly is a thing of the past
Here's a CSV file that lists the child mortality rates that you can mess with in Excel: http://www3.who.int/whosis/core/download/6-169341.csv
By child mortality rates, the healthiest nation in the world is Iceland. The United States comes in between Croatia/Cyprus and Cuba, at 34th.  The UK, meanwhile, is at 26th, with Canada at 20th.
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Offline Stealth

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Freedom of Peaceful Assembly is a thing of the past
Let me tell you something.  All over the world, for every one person who's not happy with the United States, and who *****es about everything it does, there's 1000 kids who'd give their ****ing legs to be a resident in the country.

You're not happy, get the **** out. simple as that.  sure it's got its flaws. every country, society and government on this PLANET has its flaws...  but i guarantee you that you wouldn't be able to do a tenth of the **** you do in this country if you were in most other countries in the world.  and did i mention that you've got a better chance of making a life for yourself in this country too?  c'mon man.  if you hate the country so much, move out. no one's stopping people from moving out, only from moving in...

 

Offline ionia23

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Freedom of Peaceful Assembly is a thing of the past
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma

Unfortunately the electorate of America (like the electorate of every other country) is made up mostly of morons who can't see the big picture and just vote based on what sounds like the best deal for them.


Gotta disagree with you there, friend.  They're people used to dealing in abstracts.  They only see the effects of their decisions on bars and graphs.  They do see the big picture, but not the things that make the picture.
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Offline Kazan

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Freedom of Peaceful Assembly is a thing of the past
Stealth: this "if you don't like the way things are going: LEAVE" crap is ****ing moronic

"if you don't like the way things are going: CHANGE THEM" is an appropriate response

to that we would respond "WE'RE WORKING ON IT'
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Offline Ford Prefect

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Freedom of Peaceful Assembly is a thing of the past
Stealth, first of all, I don't recall anyone saying that they hate America. Second, what's your point? Are you going to tell everyone who finds injustice in the United States that they should leave? Because by that token I think we must be living in a Utopia.

America is a lucky country; it's prosperous, its government is well-constructed and provides its population with plenty of breathing space, and we have room to be optimistic. But it is also a country like every other country, in that it is part of human civilization, and until the human psyche undergoes an evolutionary leap of monumental proportions, there will always be the same tendency towards self-interest and tyranny. Democracy is not the natural state of human affairs; it requires constant effort to be maintained. Effort means making use of its provision for unhindered expression and letting the society know when you think it is at fault, and it means being empathetic with regards to the misfortune of others. A country is as imaginary as money; you are a human being before you are an American.
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline ionia23

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Freedom of Peaceful Assembly is a thing of the past
I've said it before, I'll say it again:

"Freedom is not having to care who's running the show and where the borders are." - Ionia23

My other favorite, along Kazan's line earlier up:

"If you really want to **** things up, run for office.  I did." - Jello Biafra
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Offline Bobboau

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Freedom of Peaceful Assembly is a thing of the past
/*same thing I said when Bush did it*/
though this is slightly worse.
interesting that fox news hasn't jumped on this.
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Offline Stealth

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Freedom of Peaceful Assembly is a thing of the past
And my point is that no one's ever happy with what they have.  give them the hand, they want the arm.  give them the arm, they want the leg. it's never good enough.

i mean, no one's mentioned that in many countries they wouldn't be able to protest at all, but just because they aren't allowed to protest in the middle of the damn convention arena, somehow it's unconstitutional?  Why not think about it from the other standpoint.  People have the right to assemble too.  To assemble without being interrupted, disturbed, and otherwise broken up by protesters.  no one's stopping the protestors from protesting!!! the constitution says nothing about having the right to protest WHEREVER YOU WANT.  do you think it would be right for them to protest inside the convention center?  to disturb those assembling?  

Kazan:  Talk is cheap.  You want to get something done that you have a problem with, you don't ***** about it in a forum.  Call your congressman, email the president.  do something that has a slightly higher chance of actually working than *****ing about it to us.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2004, 02:23:26 am by 594 »

 

Offline Rictor

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Freedom of Peaceful Assembly is a thing of the past
I've got 2 pages to read through, but here's a quick response to Kaz' jibbajabba on page 2.

Quote
Supported the war:

--he voted to go to war. Its quite a simple process really, you say yes if you are in favour, and no if you are not. Thats how voting works.

Quote
Supports sending more troops to Iraq, around 40,000 or so.:

--Haven't we learned by now, problems solved at the end of a gun do not stay solved. Troops can not "fix" Iraq, they can only deteriorate the situation further, since the Iraqis do not want them there. Only a political solution can bring lasting results. If you think that the longer troops stay, the better things will get, well, ...

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-Supports the PATRIOT act:

--So, what you're saying is, he bascally gave in to peer pressure? Isn't that what all the commercial say that 12 years olds shouldn't do, when someone offers them a smoke? Thats a lousy excuse and you know it. "Going with the flow" is not a legitimate justification for passing something such as the PATRIOT act.

Quote
In favour of unconditional support for Israel:

-- "WHINE" Yes, I must say, thats a brilliant point. Your arguement is without flaw, your logic impecible.

Quote
-Supports neo-liberal economic policies world-wide:

--If you don't know what the term means, I don't see how you have a right to comment on it, much less dismiss it. Read a book, look it up, then come back with more than ignorance of the subject.

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Supports the overthrow of sovereign governments if it suits US interests.:

--says he was a supporter of the coup in Venezuela.

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Commited war crimes in Vietnam, and actualy brags about it.:

--He volunteered for the Army AFAIK. Which means, the choice was his, which means, the responsibility it his. If he was drafted, you might have had a point, but he volunteered.

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-Little respect for freedom of speech and assembly, as seen above.

--He didn't object to them either. And I don't see why you would think that the person who is about to accept the Democratic nomination for presidential candiate has no say in how things are run.

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Supports the illegal detentions in Gitmo

Its like 3am, later.

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-Supports the policy of pre-emptive war

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-4322203,00.html

"Am I prepared as president to go get them before they get us if we locate them and have the sufficient intelligence? You bet I am,'' he said at a news conference at his Washington headquarters."

"I will never allow any other country to veto what we need to do and I will never allow any other institution to veto what we need to do to protect our nation.''"

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-In the pockets of the same multinational corporations as Bush

This ought to be easy enough. Bush and Kerry share many of the same campaign contributers.

Quote
-Cabinet made of all sorts of despicable characters, from Madeline Alright to Rand Beers (who asserts that FARC was training with Al Queda) to Welsley Clark.

FARC is a Columbian guerilla faction. Rand Beers is Kerry's foreign policy chief (worked for the previous 4 administrations, inclduing Bush). His claim that FARC was training with Al Queda was generally regarded as the laughing stock of the intel community. Not one shred of evidence was produced to support it. Sort of like John Bolton's (I think its John) claim that Cuba is cooking up WMD. This is the guy in charge of Kerry's foreign policy.

And yes, Welsley Clark is an asshole. And when somone put people like him on his cabinet, that reflects on what type opf person he is, and what type of policies he's likely to persue.

"It’s a hard choice, but I think, we, think, it’s worth it."
Madeline Albright's response to a '96 interview question about the death of 500,000 Iraqi children under sanctions. She later got it through her head that what she said was not good PR, so she tried to weasel her way out by saying that thats not what she meant, though if you read the transcript, its a very straightforward question  with a straightforward answer..

also: “What’s the point of having this superb military you’re always talking about, if we can’t use it?”


Quote
-Has stiffled dissent from within the Democratic Party (Kucinich et al)

So, to summarize your arguement "you're an idiot, shut up". Yes, that should do it, I'm well and truly beaten now.

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-Is not is favour of gay marriage

And here I am, in my naivete thinking that fence-sitting is a bad thing. That is shows lack of principals and a willingness to sell to whoever is buying. Silly me.

Quote
-Is not in favour of universal health-care

oh well, I'm fine just where I am. But next the hospital tells you to **** off because youi're not covered, remember who you voted for.

Quote
There's more, though I'm too lazy to look it up. This is just off the top of my head.


I have listed fully 16 things wrong with Kerry, covereing every major issue. Thats lazy?

Hardly worth replying to, but I'll bite. Don't throw around fancy terms like ultra-socialists, unless you know what they mean. No one who is in favour of private property, which I am,  could be called socialist, much less an ultra-socialist. But I guess "social democrat" just doesn't have that same evil ring to it.

edit: for the one or two that I missed, they're the ones that need documentation and Im afraid that sleep is a priority right now, so you'll have to sit tight.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2004, 06:59:32 am by 644 »

 

Offline Zarax

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Freedom of Peaceful Assembly is a thing of the past
Go at your local party meetings and ***** there...
If you do it good enough then you can start a political career ;)
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Offline Stealth

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Freedom of Peaceful Assembly is a thing of the past
Quote
Originally posted by Zarax
Go at your local party meetings and ***** there...


exactly.  because *****ing about how corrupt your country is is ultimately, not going to do your country any good.

 

Offline karajorma

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Freedom of Peaceful Assembly is a thing of the past
Quote
Originally posted by ionia23
Gotta disagree with you there, friend.  They're people used to dealing in abstracts.  They only see the effects of their decisions on bars and graphs.  They do see the big picture, but not the things that make the picture.


By big picture I basically meant what you say. That the small actions have knock on effects. Sure everyone wants world peace but there are plenty of morons who think you can get that by taking the actions Bush has taken. (i.e invading a country and only then realising that you hadn't got the faintest f**king clue what to do next).

Tax is a good example. Many lower class people vote republican because they don't want a tax increase. So instead they end up paying more for their health care because although a tax rise would mean they took home less money they'd actually not have to pay for health care and would end up better off.

When I say "the big picture" I of course include the things that make up that picture. Any fool can think "Free health would be nice".
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Offline Rictor

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Freedom of Peaceful Assembly is a thing of the past
and while we're on the subject:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/07/29/wus129.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/07/29/ixnewstop.html


Quote
Rand Beers, the national security adviser to the Kerry campaign, opened a high-level briefing with a warning: "In many ways, the goals of the two administrations are in fact not all that different."


Quote
America's allies expecting a shift in United States foreign policy from a President John Kerry should think again, his top advisers said yesterday.

Instead, members of Mr Kerry's inner circle could promise only "stark contrasts" of personality and style between President George W Bush and their candidate, who they vowed would be a "hands-on, engaged, diplomat-in-chief"


Quote
His silence was unsurprising. Although 95 per cent of rank and file delegates to this week's convention opposed the Iraq war, Mr Kerry voted for it, and has hinted that he might keep US troops there for several years.


Quote
His views were echoed by Labour MPs attending the convention. Mike Gapes, Labour MP for Ilford South, said: "I don't believe there will be a massive change in foreign policy if there's a change in administration.".

 

Offline Kazan

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Freedom of Peaceful Assembly is a thing of the past
rictor you're so bloody naive

so since world war II was fixed at the point of a gun then it'll come back eh?

yes.. he soo stifled dissent by winning he primaries! OH THE HUMANITY

etc etc etc you just repeated your naive ultra-socialist biased drivel -- rictor kindly stay the hell out of politics, you're too ****ing naive
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Offline Rictor

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Freedom of Peaceful Assembly is a thing of the past
Well I love you too sunshine.

 

Offline Stealth

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Freedom of Peaceful Assembly is a thing of the past
Kazan, with all respect, Rictor maybe should stay out of politics because he's naive, but so should you, because you're quite arrogant ;)

no offense :D

 

Offline Kazan

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Freedom of Peaceful Assembly is a thing of the past
You're one to talk, you're as bad as rictor
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Offline Ford Prefect

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Freedom of Peaceful Assembly is a thing of the past
No no, it sounds like you're all perfectly cut out for politics. :D
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline Kazan

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Freedom of Peaceful Assembly is a thing of the past
except for the fact that i don't play politics - i just call it as is without sugar coating
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