[01010]

Originally posted by Flipside


People who are mentally unstable, such as terrorists, or the Grand Prix Priest, or that guy that climbed into a lions cage holding a bible the other day, tend to use religion as an excuse for their actions, but I don't really think of it as the reason.

It's what us normal folk would call retardedness.

[Zarax]

Now we just need Kazan's holy wrath towards religion to complete this thread...

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]No aldo, the PIRA is a splinter group (one of the most insidious given their long term activity). The 'official IRA' (about the only accurate name I can give them tbh) are largely responsible for the liberation of the republic and mediation between the more nasty splinter groups. You don't tend to hear about them so much. That's not to downplay their nastiness though as they have killed  innocents.

The hardcore splinter groups are by far the most sickening, between omagh, downright vague 'military targets' (the guy who cleaned a local police station for instance) and blatently terrorising targets (british mainland).

They tend to fundraise via pirated movies etc. incidently, for some reason they staunchly claim that they take no part in drugs trafficing  (doubtful given the money to be made).

Anyhow, I'm off the beaten track here. What I was trying to point out is that initally the IRA were labelled as terrorists back in the liberation of Ireland days and in my mind they were not the term freedom fighter was more accurate. In recent decades they deserve the title of terrorist and only maniacs would dispute that (and I can point you in the direction of a few sadly).
[/color]

I'm not aware much of the history of the IRA, to be honest, albiet I did think you meant the originals.  Is the Official IRA the one that offered to assist the Germans (i.e. they would do it if given logistical / military support)  by launching a 'invasion' into N.Ireland during WW2, then? (IIRC the Nazis called it off after meeting with IRA liasons, because they didn't believe they were competent enough to carry it off).

EDIT; found the story http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/719924.stm

Little different from what I remembered above.

[Martinus]

[color=66ff00]Wow, never even heard of that.

To be honest I'm not 100% on my IRA related history either I know bits and pieces it's all a bit fragmented.
[/color]

[vyper]

[q]freedom fighter was more accurate[/q]

They killed British Civilians, even your "real" IRA, I'm very sure were involved at least some mainland bombings.

That, in my book, just took away any sympathy I may have for them.

[ionia23]

I've said it before and I"ll say it again:

"Al Queda (and it's variants) is to Islam as the Ku Klux Klan is to Christianity".

St. Mother Teresa was a Christian, but so was Torquemada.  It's never the religion, but what you do with it that matters.

[Clave]

There can be no worse utterance than: 'God is on our side' - it is either the vain hope that they are going to succeed, or lamentable justification for the atrocities that will be committed.

If there is a God, then he/she is not on anyone's side....

OK - Democracy:

The problem with democracy is that you elect politicians.  No big deal you might think, but, you have to ask why those candidates wanted to become politicians in the first place.  The simple answer is Power.  They are hungry for power and the associated wealth, success, and status.  It's a big trough, and they all want to get their snouts in and suck up as much of our money as they can, hopefully before moving higher up the ranks until they get to the top.  There is no such thing as a clean politician....

My system would eliminate all that, but I'll save that gem for another day

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Clave

The problem with democracy is that you elect politicians.  No big deal you might think, but, you have to ask why those candidates wanted to become politicians in the first place.  The simple answer is Power.  They are hungry for power and the associated wealth, success, and status.  It's a big trough, and they all want to get their snouts in and suck up as much of our money as they can, hopefully before moving higher up the ranks until they get to the top.  There is no such thing as a clean politician....

My system would eliminate all that, but I'll save that gem for another day

How could you possibly do that?  By putting a gun to peoples heads so they govern when they don;t want to? (which is a transference to power, BTW).

The truth is that there is no ideal system of government, because government is based on people, and people are inherently selfish.

[ionia23]

As a co-worker from India put it: "Democracy is empowerment for idiots.  Just look at who gets elected."

I thought it was funny.

[Knight Templar]

Originally posted by Clave

The problem with democracy is that you elect politicians.  No big deal you might think, but, you have to ask why those candidates wanted to become politicians in the first place.  The simple answer is Power.  They are hungry for power and the associated wealth, success, and status.  It's a big trough, and they all want to get their snouts in and suck up as much of our money as they can, hopefully before moving higher up the ranks until they get to the top.  There is no such thing as a clean politician....

That's quite a stereotype you got there. Not that it's not generally true...

[01010]

Originally posted by Knight Templar


That's quite a stereotype you got there. Not that it's not generally true...

I agree. As nice as it is to think that all politicians are the same, there are some that do what they do because they genuinely care about the people they represent.

[Clave]

Sure, at the local level, I expect they are honest and well-meaning, but give them a sniff of major government, then they fall in with the rest of the leeches....

[Flipside]

Well, at the moment, we are, at least, not at the position where you have to be a 'rich personality' in order to run for office, I am at least grateful for that.

However, in a sense Clave is right, once a politician makes the cabinet or similar role, he now represents the government more than he represents the people, and his actions change accordingly.

[Clave]

Exactly, while I don't mean to be harsh, I always question people's motives.  It is called 'healthy scepticism' or something....

[Martinus]

Originally posted by vyper
[q]freedom fighter was more accurate[/q]

They killed British Civilians, even your "real" IRA, I'm very sure were involved at least some mainland bombings.

That, in my book, just took away any sympathy I may have for them.

[color=66ff00]You didn't read what I posted, back when they were liberating Ireland they were freedom fighters though to the british they were branded terrorists. After that, when it became a war of trying to get the north liberated the people involved with the IRA became terrorists.

Anyhow this is a dodgy subject and largely based on perception so I think I'll stop.
[/color]

[Rictor]

Originally posted by ionia23
As a co-worker from India put it: "Democracy is empowerment for idiots.  Just look at who gets elected."

I thought it was funny.

or

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. "

[Ford Prefect]

There is only one way to combat terrorism, and that is to crack down as hard as possible.

Good idea. If we shoot at them enough, there will be no more terrorism. I don't know why we haven't tried that.

[Clave]

You would do nothing then?

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Clave
You would do nothing then?

I think history has proven that creating martyrs to the cause is not an effective anti-terrorism strategy.

[Rictor]

get at the root causes of terrorism. You can't be naive enough to think that people get up one day and think "hey, I'm kind of bored, I think I'll go strap explosives to myself and blow up a building".

No, religion and all that **** are excuses that peope give themselves. Now, some are more legitimate than others. Bin Laden and his bunch for example, don't really have all that great a cause - they're mostly soldiers, in search of a cause. After the Afghan war in the 80s, you had a group or orhanized miltants who suddenly found themselves without a fight. Part of the problem is that al Queda is really an international organization and as such does not really have a firm agenda, other than fighting Israeli and US influence in the Middle-East. Part of their grievance, and what drives of yound people to their cause, is the treatment of the Palestinians and sympathy with their cause. Another is, I would imagine, constant US intervention in the Middle East, and their support of regional dictators. As I said, al Queda is not the best example,

But others, like some of the Palestinian groups, have much more legitimate causes. Want to weaken terrorism? Get Israel to treat the Palestinians like human beings, and all that that entails.