[Tiara]

The only way we can... get rid of all but the most extremeist terrorists is by completely ignoring them. that includes getting the thousands and thousands of soldiers out of their friggin' countries. And only intervene if nessecary, not pre-emptively intervene in any way.

If say, China or Russia had thousands of soldiers in the US and they answered to nobody then their own government, wouldn't you get... 'pissed' to say the least? Or when your government is dictated by a foreign government?

I mean, having influence is one thing. But saying what is 'right' and what is 'wrong' in another man's country is just plain dumb. Not to mention extremely hypocritical.

Let's look at nukes for a minute. The US has hundreds of nukes of varying yields. From levelling a single street to levelling entire cities like Tokyo. yet when another country wants to make a nuke and they don't agree with that countries vision they all go "BUT THEY CAN'T HAVE THEM! WE DON'T AGREE WITH THEM AND THEY MIGHT USE THEM AGAINST US! WE WILL INVADE YOU IF YOU DON'T STOP MAKING NUKEZ!"

Why the **** do you think they want to have them in the first place? Because the US is looming over them with hundreds of ICBM with nuclear warheads attached aimed at their asses.

This is basically the Amiracan military slogan;

RESPECT MY AUTHORITAI!!!!!


If anyone disagrees with them in any consequential way they are ZE AXZEES OV EEEEVIIIIL!

This is the kind of stance that just BEGS for terrorism to arise and start to f*ck you up. Because they litterally have no other way to fight you.

Not that I condone terrorism in any way, but i can see why they do it. Hell, if the US was trying to invade my country just because you disagree with our ways or dictate policy for the same reason, I'd seriously consider fighting you in any way I can. And many people in the poorer countries blame the US and it's friends for many things and feel the same way.

***NOTE 1; I'm not arguing the invasion of Iraq here. That was pretty much legit.

***NOTE 2; Once again, this is not US bashing, this is US policy bashing.

[Rictor]

iraq was legit?

[Grey Wolf]

Quite basically, to get rid of terrorism in its current form, we have to stop using an "iron fist in a velvet glove". Spewing platitudes about freedom from our collective mouth while messing with small countries that do things we don't like is the most blatant act of hypocrisy one can do.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
Quite basically, to get rid of terrorism in its current form, we have to stop using an "iron fist in a velvet glove". Spewing platitudes about freedom from our collective mouth while messing with small countries that do things we don't like is the most blatant act of hypocrisy one can do.

Pretty much what I said but in a more... civil way

I suck at being civil

[Ford Prefect]

Originally posted by Rictor
iraq was legit?

I'm a little curious about that part myself.

[Tiara]

The invasion was pretty much legit. Though the manner in the way it was performed from the very beginning is... questionable at best. As was the timing.

But thats another topic

[Martinus]

Originally posted by Tiara
I suck at being civil

[color=66ff00]Heheh.
Good point about the nukes though. If it's all about others not having nukes then america should decommission all theirs first.

Like that's going to happen.
[/color]

[Kosh]

This whole chain of evens in Russia is hardly suprising.

[Rictor]

Originally posted by Tiara
The invasion was pretty much legit. Though the manner in the way it was performed from the very beginning is... questionable at best. As was the timing.

But thats another topic

attacking a sovereign nation is legitimate? And without authorization from the UN, in contravention of international law?plus they posed no threat.

Though I will agree that an invasion might in theory have been legit; most Iraqis (and this is coming from an Iraqi source) initially supported the overthrow of Saddam and, to varying degrees, welcomed the US....that is until all of that other stuff happened.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by Rictor
attacking a sovereign nation is legitimate? And without authorization from the UN, in contravention of international law?plus they posed no threat.

Attacking a dictator that kills his own subjects is bound to get shot down eventually.

But i did say I didn't agree with the manner it was performed, nor the timing. That includes your point about the authorization.

And I'm not even talking about the 'power base establishing'-policy of the Post-War time by the US.

Though I will agree that an invasion might in theory have been legit; most Iraqis (and this is coming from an Iraqi source) initially supported the overthrow of Saddam and, to varying degrees, welcomed the US....that is until all of that other stuff happened.

Exactly what i meant. The invasion was bound to happen sooner or later. But the way it did happen was just stupid. The deaths of the Iraqis surpass the deaths under Saddam's rule for the last 5 years IIRC. Not to mention the casualties on the US side that just keeps mounting. And just because the US doesn't want to give other countries a more active role because 'they did it so they should be in control', those countries and their soldiers suffer as well.

The US sees this as 'their' victory while claiming they did it purely for Iraq itself. In the meanwhile the ignorance and hypocracy just keeps on growing.

[Clave]

Originally posted by Tiara
The deaths of the Iraqis surpass the deaths under Saddam's rule for the last 5 years IIRC.  

We killed more than 600,000? because that is about what Saddam did to his own...

[Bobboau]

yeah, I think it was around 6-700,000 total.

[01010]

Originally posted by Maeglamor

[color=66ff00]Heheh.
Good point about the nukes though. If it's all about others not having nukes then america should decommission all theirs first.

Like that's going to happen.
[/color]

Give all the worlds nukes to me. I will dispose of them. Or keep them.

[Knight Templar]

Originally posted by Bobboau
yeah, I think it was around 6-700,000 total.

That'd be like killing off the entire population of San Francisco...

That's a lot of bombs that 'missed.'

[Rictor]

Well see, this is where I think Saddam and Clinton (and also Bush Sr) were equal partners, in the deaths of those hundreds of thousands, which I assume is reffering to the deaths under sanctions.

Sure, Saddam was a part of that, but the US imposed (and UN tolerated) sanctions were far from reasonable, and prevented cruccial infrastructure and health equipment from entering the country.