Author Topic: why I hate missionaries  (Read 5491 times)

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Offline icespeed

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what i don't get though, is why only the bad stuff people do that crops up in the news, especially Christians (well maybe i notice more because i happen to be one). there are heaps of really nice Christians around who do really nice things for everyone and yet they don't get _any_ mention at all. not fair.
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Offline aldo_14

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Quote
Originally posted by icespeed
what i don't get though, is why only the bad stuff people do that crops up in the news, especially Christians (well maybe i notice more because i happen to be one). there are heaps of really nice Christians around who do really nice things for everyone and yet they don't get _any_ mention at all. not fair.


Because lots of people do lots of nice things every day, so we get used to it.  Whereas when one person or group of people do something bad - regardless of who they are or what they believe - it's a bit more unusual and thus more newsworthy.  

And because the church - in western society  - is supposed to be providing moral guidance etc etc (or they say that's their purpose), then immoral stuff done by them or in their name becomes even more noteworthy.

I think it's better that society takes peoples good nature rather than their bad nature for granted - even if it makes the news a bit more depressing.

Oh, and these 'missionaries' == ******s.

 

Offline pyro-manic

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No news is good news....
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I don't profess to know what were in those nun's minds.....they may have meant well and all.  (And no, I am not catholic...so I'm not making excuses)  However, using aid during a disaster as a bargaining chip to coerce people into converting is just wrong.  Even if they agreed....it would be just to get the necessities they needed--which doesn't lend to any kind of long-term commitment in the spiritual sense of the word.  Another example of there being nothing wrong with Christianity....except the "Christians" that give it a bad name.  :wtf:

 

Offline Liberator

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Quote
Originally posted by icespeed
what i don't get though, is why only the bad stuff people do that crops up in the news, especially Christians (well maybe i notice more because i happen to be one). there are heaps of really nice Christians around who do really nice things for everyone and yet they don't get _any_ mention at all. not fair.


There is a severe bias in the media against religion in general, Christianity has a special place in their intolerance however.
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

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Offline Grey Wolf

Perhaps its because it's larger than any of the other religion, and hence has a larger number of idiots?
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Offline Mongoose

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These nuns are not representative of Catholicism; in fact, they're not representative of any form of Christianity.  I'm appalled at their lack of compassion.  This type of missionary action is the exact opposite of what is promoted by the Catholic Church.  This might have been accepted in the year 1000, but not by any means in the year 2005.

Liberator, these "sects" of Catholicism that blame the Jewish people as a whole are an insignificant minority.  Yes, it is true that the Jewish chief priests and scribes were the ones who called for Christ's death, but does that make the entire Jewish race guilty?  Of course not.  And, if you are a Christian, you have to realize that Christ had to die to grant salvation, so "blaming" anyone for something that had to happen is pretty absurd in and of itself.

I understand your confusion about the Catholic teaching regarding Mary; it's something a lot of non-Catholics don't really understand.  Catholics don't actually "pray" to Mary or any of the saints.  Instead, we ask for them to intercede for us with God.  You see, a saint is someone who lived a life of virtue and holiness, and who earned the reward of heaven as a result of this.  Those of us here on Earth ask for the saints' prayers and intercessions.  This is where you get the idea of patron saints; certain saints are associated with certain activities, professions, countries, or diseases, so asking one of them for their intercession when undergoing a particular problem is almost like having someone there to help you through a difficult time.

Regarding Mary, the Catholic Church doesn't treat her as a "mere" mortal woman.  She is the Mother of God, called the "Theokotos" in the Orthodox Church.  According to two important Catholic traditions about Mary, those of the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption, Mary was conceived without the original sin that stains the rest of humanity as recognition of her future role as the bearer of the Son of God, and at the end of her life, she was assumed body and soul into heaven, a symbol of our own eventual reunions of body and soul at the end of time.  Also, as exemplified by Christ giving Mary into John's care as he hung on the cross to be his mother, Mary is a mother to all of humanity.  Seen through this light, asking for her intercession and prayer is a very powerful thing indeed.

Please note:  I'm not trying to prostelyze here; I'm simply informing Liberator and others about Catholic doctrines and teachings that they might be unfamiliar with.  I also want to re-emphasize that the actions of those nuns are in absolutely no way representative of the actions of Catholic missionaries or of Church doctrine; in fact, they are going against important principles of both.

 

Offline Goober5000

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Originally posted by Mongoose
You see, a saint is someone who lived a life of virtue and holiness, and who earned the reward of heaven as a result of this.
Umm... works-based salvation? :wtf:

 

Offline Holmes

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Exactly that...
But those are the people that are more "saved" than the others ;)
"But manhood is melted into courtesies, valour into compliment, and men are only turned into tongue, and trim ones too: he is now as valiant as Hercules that only tells a lie and swears it."  

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Offline Nuclear1

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Quote
Originally posted by Goober5000
Umm... works-based salvation? :wtf:


Well, yeah. That's how the Catholic system works. Why do you think us Lutherans and other Protestants split off? :D (First one to make a 'Luther wanted luvs' gets a free kick in the ***)

But, in all seriousness, I'm utterly furious with the way these people mistreated these already-victims. I'm not a Catholic, but I sure as hell know that no Christian demonination encourages or even tolerates this kind of behavior.

Quote

what i don't get though, is why only the bad stuff people do that crops up in the news, especially Christians (well maybe i notice more because i happen to be one). there are heaps of really nice Christians around who do really nice things for everyone and yet they don't get _any_ mention at all. not fair.


That's the way the media works. Bad news sells. Good news (i.e. Christians doing good works, Iraqi citizens supporting the US) don't make headlines. Why? It's boring.

As for religious affiliation, I was born as non-affiliated, then later became a Lutheran. During this I had been to a Catholic private school, and I did notice all of the differences that Mongoose has stated in his post, especially the use of the saints as intercedents and basing our salvation on human works.
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Offline Holmes

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I was born catholic then i grew disaffected.
Now i'm agnostic at best.
"But manhood is melted into courtesies, valour into compliment, and men are only turned into tongue, and trim ones too: he is now as valiant as Hercules that only tells a lie and swears it."  

--William Shakespeare, Much Ado About Nothing, Act IV, Scene I

 

Offline Holmes

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WTF?
Holmes???
"But manhood is melted into courtesies, valour into compliment, and men are only turned into tongue, and trim ones too: he is now as valiant as Hercules that only tells a lie and swears it."  

--William Shakespeare, Much Ado About Nothing, Act IV, Scene I

  

Offline Holmes

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Admins, it's Zarax here the accounts got mixed somehow...
Can you do something about it?
"But manhood is melted into courtesies, valour into compliment, and men are only turned into tongue, and trim ones too: he is now as valiant as Hercules that only tells a lie and swears it."  

--William Shakespeare, Much Ado About Nothing, Act IV, Scene I

 

Offline Nuclear1

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Take it up in the request thread.
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 

Offline karajorma

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Quote
Originally posted by Mongoose
These nuns are not representative of Catholicism; in fact, they're not representative of any form of Christianity.  I'm appalled at their lack of compassion.  This type of missionary action is the exact opposite of what is promoted by the Catholic Church.  This might have been accepted in the year 1000, but not by any means in the year 2005.


Really? I see very little difference between this and the teachings of the catholic church in Africa that condoms are only 10% effective against AIDS and therefore aren't worth bothering with. The orders to do that came straight from the vatican.

This is just the same kind of indifference to human suffering on a more immediate timescale.
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Offline Grey Wolf

You have to remember that the Vatican is approximately 30-400 years behind current times, depending on the issue. The only forgave Galileo a few years back, and last year they just noticed the feminist movement..
You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw

 

Offline Deepblue

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Same with any beuracracy.

 

Offline Nuke

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cristianity (as with prettymuch all religions) have so many subsects. this leads me to believe that they still havent got there story right. the big argument over how best to define truth has let humanity to great atrocities. in reality truth only applies in logic when compairing very simple very abstract statements 'left is the opisite of right' for example. its like an infinite loop in our programming, it seems to do nothing but eat up peoples resources. it is not possible to convert every person on earth to one religion because there is more bull**** out there than this so called 'truth'. convert to nihilisim philosophy, that way you dont waste so much time trying to figure everything out. confucus said something about not trying to figure out the spiritul realm. this world is what matters now, worry about the spiritual realm when and if you get there.

its like the great political sine wave theory i made up, after a great number of years of libral or conservitive excess, the people tend to get fed up and shoot for the other side, repeat indefinitely. middle ground is the best place to be, in all sence thst is where we aim for but always miss. of course this is on the grand scale so it doesnt always apply to the individual level. this applies to you multiaxis people as well, just imagine 2 (or more) intersecting sine waves :D

ii say we should nuke the vatican. maybe  we shoulds use the gay bomb, but i dont think anyone would notice the difference. the vatican is pretty small we could probibly get away with using napalm in large quantities.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2005, 05:47:31 pm by 766 »
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Offline Sandwich

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Quote
Originally posted by Mongoose
I understand your confusion about the Catholic teaching regarding Mary; it's something a lot of non-Catholics don't really understand.  Catholics don't actually "pray" to Mary or any of the saints.  Instead, we ask for them to intercede for us with God.  You see, a saint is someone who lived a life of virtue and holiness, and who earned the reward of heaven as a result of this.  Those of us here on Earth ask for the saints' prayers and intercessions.  This is where you get the idea of patron saints; certain saints are associated with certain activities, professions, countries, or diseases, so asking one of them for their intercession when undergoing a particular problem is almost like having someone there to help you through a difficult time.

Regarding Mary, the Catholic Church doesn't treat her as a "mere" mortal woman.  She is the Mother of God, called the "Theokotos" in the Orthodox Church.  According to two important Catholic traditions about Mary, those of the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption, Mary was conceived without the original sin that stains the rest of humanity as recognition of her future role as the bearer of the Son of God, and at the end of her life, she was assumed body and soul into heaven, a symbol of our own eventual reunions of body and soul at the end of time.  Also, as exemplified by Christ giving Mary into John's care as he hung on the cross to be his mother, Mary is a mother to all of humanity.  Seen through this light, asking for her intercession and prayer is a very powerful thing indeed.


The main problems I see with this is that it's not only un-biblical (it is Jesus who is our High Priest, and who intercedes for us before God day and night, not some "saint"), but it's anti-biblical as well (praying to the dead? Let's just have a seance and get it over with!). Jesus taught us specifically how to pray: "Our Father who art in heaven...". Not "Oh, Holy Spirit, we welcome you...", nor "Blessed (long-dead) Mother, be the wall seperating me from communing with God...". Simply "Our Father...".

Yes, Mary/Miriam was special. But she was special the same way the Jewish people were "special". They were both special because they were chosen - they were not chosen because they were special.

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Offline Knight Templar

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Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
And aren't nuns supposed to take a vow of charity or something?


Chastity, not charity.
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