Author Topic: Political letter (please no flaming)  (Read 4456 times)

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Offline Unknown Target

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Political letter (please no flaming)
Liberator, even though you may be somewhat on my side, you are so uninformed and so conftrontational, that I really wish you weren't. Please, stop posting such off-base remarks.

A) If we had bombed them back to the stone age, then not only would we have even more trouble rebuilding, but the international uproar over it would be tremendous.


B) The fact is that we don't have an exit plan.  In case you haven't noticed, US troops are dying daily. Maybe if you had a son or daughter in the conflict, and watched them get torn apart from the feet up by a hidden land mine, then you wouldn't be so quick to support the war.
I, luckily, have not, but I know many people who have, and the problem with the supporters of the war is that they usually don't realize the fact that Americans are dying, and lots of them.
Lib, when I say we don't have an exit plan, that means that we can't leave. If we left Iraq right now, the country would tear itself apart, leaving a huge power vacuum in that area, ripe for some othe Al-Queda type organization to come in and take over.
So we can't leave. We can't ask for help, because no one will give it. So what does that mean? We don't have any way to get out. That means that over the next twenty or so years, many more Americans will lose their lives.



Sure, I agree that Saddamn should have been taken out, but not like this. Saddamn was a horrible man, yes, but right now, we are no better. If you look at the abuses piling up, then we are no better. If you look at the fact that we committed an un-sanctioned invasion, then we are no better.
That is why the United States needs to improve itself before it improves others.


Anyway, I need to get off, someone needs a ride somewhere and I can't think straight (just woke up).  Sorry if some of that didn't make much sense, or wasn't explained in detail.

 

Offline Gank

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Political letter (please no flaming)
Quote
Originally posted by Unknown Target
Once again: a problem with ideals and principles. No one thinks of the future in America, hence the above problems.

Ideals and principals arent going to pay the bills, and unless those bills are paid it doesnt matter what ideals and principles the US stands for, because nobodys going to listen to it.
Quote
Originally posted by Unknown Target
EDIT: Also, none of those links work :-p I based that on the "debt clock" text in the first link :)

hmmph, thats what I get for copy and pasting.
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/454b9d94-7fbf-11d9-8ceb-00000e2511c8.html
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_09/b3922077_mz054.htm
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000102&sid=aZ6yVeyLhzkE&refer=uk
http://www.globalagendamagazine.com/2005/matthewsimmons.asp

Quote
Originally posted by Flipside
Thing is, America is trying to form an Empire, even some of those in a position to know have admitted it, I believe a Bush aide spoke to Ronald Suskind of the New York times, telling him that they were now an Empire and made reality up as they chose it, and that the media's only job was to document it.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/
Click the statement of principals button and take note of the names.

 
Political letter (please no flaming)
I call for public spankings for those that resorted to name calling...  Get out the bamboo switches and cat-o-nine-tails. :p

UT started this thread as a request for those that agreed with his email to express it by sending it along.  Up until the last page or so, it was pretty much just a meeting of the minds with an exchange of opinions on what he had to say.  Then we just had to slip back into old habits, didn't we....

Not one of us would be taken seriously if we claimed that we were in possession of all pertinent facts or that all the facts we did have were 100% truth.   All here have formed opinions based on what information they have accumulated, and express themselves according to that opinion.  

We all have a right to our opinions, however that right becomes corrupt when we stoop to personal attacks, fruitless argumentation, baiting, or crude name calling.  Those things only serve to make you look immature, unintelligent, or anti-social.

 

Offline Janos

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Political letter (please no flaming)
Quote
Originally posted by Sapphire
I call for public spankings for those that resorted to name calling...  Get out the bamboo switches and cat-o-nine-tails. :p

UT started this thread as a request for those that agreed with his email to express it by sending it along.  Up until the last page or so, it was pretty much just a meeting of the minds with an exchange of opinions on what he had to say.  Then we just had to slip back into old habits, didn't we....
[/b]

NO DISCUSSION HERE JUST PRAISE ME OK :confused:

What do you except. Someone posts a political thingie in the internets. Debate is bound to happen. It should happen. It happens.

Quote

Not one of us would be taken seriously if we claimed that we were in possession of all pertinent facts or that all the facts we did have were 100% truth.   All here have formed opinions based on what information they have accumulated, and express themselves according to that opinion.  


Quite a few things are facts, not just "ur opinions mang". Bad relativity sucks.

Quote

We all have a right to our opinions, however that right becomes corrupt when we stoop to personal attacks, fruitless argumentation, baiting, or crude name calling.  Those things only serve to make you look immature, unintelligent, or anti-social. [/B]


It's debate, a fine art indeed.
lol wtf

 
Political letter (please no flaming)
Debate is a fine art...  Thats what I'm saying.   Why turn it into a brawl?

 

Offline Janos

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Quote
Originally posted by Sapphire
Debate is a fine art...  Thats what I'm saying.   Why turn it into a brawl?


Trolls or "trolls".
What constitutes as a troll is a fine limit. People get pissed off at Lib's opinions, but I doub't he's trolling with them - he propably believes in his cause, so dismissing him outright is a big mistake. Of course, such opinions tend to heat some people up, so what begins as honest (lol) argument ends in flames. It's pretty much unavoidable and the only way to stop it is strict moderation (bans).
lol wtf

 
Political letter (please no flaming)
No, the only way is for people to take personal responsibility for their own actions.   Thats a sign of maturity.

edit: btw...I am not trying to "get" Lib...k?  He and I probably have many of the same opinions on things.  I am addressing the delivery of those opinions....and I'm not addressing just his.  I mean all of us in general.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2005, 01:16:09 pm by 2033 »

 

Offline ShadowWolf_IH

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Political letter (please no flaming)
basically it's debating verses flaming.  when we head for name calling, we begin a flame war.   For the most part, we have had a debate thread on religeon and now one on politics.  This one is beginning to degenerate.  The idea of this thread is to debate without flaming.  Let's try and keep our eye on the ball here ok?
You can't take the sky from me.  Can't take that from me.

Casualties of War

 

Offline aldo_14

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Quote
Originally posted by ShadowWolf_IH

Here's a question that i beg an answer to.  Since most of the people on this forum are against america and her actions, what do you same people think that america doing right?


In terms of foreign affairs in particular (because I probably don't know enough of internal American politics to make an informed-enough opinion) - not much.  In fact, I can't really remember looking at a US foreign policy over the last 3,4,etc years and thinking 'well done, good on you'.

Does that make me biased?  I don't know - I don't think so, because there's not much my own country has done that I approve of.... tuition fees, supporting the Iraq war, internment without trial/house arrest, ID cards, the scapegoatery of asylum seekers/immigrants/refugees,etc.

But, in complete 100% objective honesty, nothing springs to mind.

NB:  I'm annoyed when people have a go at 'Europeans'.   Europe is about 10-20-30+ (depending on how you define europes size) countries of vastly differing culture and ethnicity.  I think it's unfair to group such a wide region of diversity into a single catch-all term, and at worst it avoids actually examining the motives of the people of each nation.

 

Offline Scuddie

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Political letter (please no flaming)
A heated debate is still just a debate.  It has not yet lowered to the point of personal attacks.  And also, an argument has to be honest, otherwise it's just libel.

More on-topic, I find it saddening that even Canada has a richer American culture than the US itself.  The "American Way" has been bluntly replaced with "The American Administration's Way".  But what saddens me even further, is that people know this, but they dont care anymore.  And it will always be my belief that the only way around it, the only way to restore what should be, is to make the masses realize what a privelage the "American Way" is.

I seriously cant wait until the next World War to come and cripple the US's morale, so that others may share the same love I (reluctantly) have for the country.
Bunny stole my signature :(.

Sorry boobies.

 

Offline Unknown Target

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Quote
Originally posted by Janos


NO DISCUSSION HERE JUST PRAISE ME OK :confused:

[/B]


I never said that. In fact, if you read my posts, I clearly stated that I welcomed all opinions.


However, we had a few "unnamed" people come into the thread, resort to name calling, and it all went to hell. If you read the first page, you'll see that not only was it flameless, but we were having a civil discussion with people from many different view points.

Admins, I leave it up to you to see whether or not you want to see if this thread gets back on track, or lock it as you see fit.

  

Offline Janos

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Quote
Originally posted by Unknown Target


I never said that. In fact, if you read my posts, I clearly stated that I welcomed all opinions.


However, we had a few "unnamed" people come into the thread, resort to name calling, and it all went to hell. If you read the first page, you'll see that not only was it flameless, but we were having a civil discussion with people from many different view points.

Admins, I leave it up to you to see whether or not you want to see if this thread gets back on track, or lock it as you see fit.


Sorry, it came out a little blunt. It was not meant for you, but for Sapphire. plz don't hate me we can be e-lovers
lol wtf

 

Offline Unknown Target

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I'm...not gonna touch that one :D

 

Offline ShadowWolf_IH

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Janos you do know that she is engaged right?
You can't take the sky from me.  Can't take that from me.

Casualties of War

 

Offline WeatherOp

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Political letter (please no flaming)
Public spanking!:D  To all who name call.
Decent Blacksmith, Master procrastinator.

PHD in the field of Almost Finishing Projects.

 

Offline Janos

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Quote
Originally posted by ShadowWolf_IH
Janos you do know that she is engaged right?


She? you turned me off
lol wtf

 

Offline Liberator

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Quote
Originally posted by Unknown Target
A) If we had bombed them back to the stone age, then not only would we have even more trouble rebuilding, but the international uproar over it would be tremendous.

#1)Rebuilding a country with 0 existing governmental structure is far easier that trying to fit a new system over an existing system that works differently

B) The fact is that we don't have an exit plan.  In case you haven't noticed, US troops are dying daily.

#2)We have been in country for just under 2 years.  You've fallen into the same intellectual trap that the Left wants you to.  Rebuilding a country is a LONG TERM venture, it can't be done in a couple of years and then say **** 'em.  We will be there a minimum of 10 years if we want to look like we're taking it seriously.


It is a problem that there are US soldiers dying daily.  However, there are many times that number of Iraqis dying from the same bombs and raids.  What needs to happen is a full size high impact media campaign to educate the Iraqis that we are there to help them, and if they are unhappy with us being there, the fastest way to get rid of us is to turn over the bastards that are killing their fathers, mothers, brothers and sisters.


______________
Lib doesn't troll on purpose...
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

There are only 10 types of people in the world , those that understand binary and those that don't.

 

Offline Flipside

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Political letter (please no flaming)
The problem there Lib, is that there will always be people who see that as coercion, i.e. 'You want us out of here? Then give us what we want.'.

It's a Catch 22. It isn't government that is the stumbling block, it is the culture. The poor Iraqi people are caught in the middle of an argument that most of them want no part in. The fight has never been between America and the Terrorists, it's between Freedom of Life and Forced Compliance. And that's a messy War, because there is no home country, no bases, no uniform and no 'Right or Wrong' for either side. There are 'Generals' for both sides in both America and the Middle East, and that War can never, ever be won with bombs or bullets.

 

Offline Unknown Target

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...you think all that hasn't been tried?

Look, this argument's delving into emotional stupidity, I'm not even going to touch those points, I'll leave it to someone else to start the flame war.

 

Offline ShadowWolf_IH

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sorry UT, and it was going so well...even though i don't agree with your opinion, the thread was going well.
You can't take the sky from me.  Can't take that from me.

Casualties of War