Author Topic: Build Me A Computer  (Read 1199 times)

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Offline Fineus

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...or rather, explain a few things.

I've been out of the loop on computer parts for some time now as I've had no reason to upgrade. However my dad wants a new computer and has charged me with building something capable but as cheap as possible. It won't be a games machine necessarily so there's no need for the latest graphics and sound cards... but it will be used for rendering and Photoshop and so the CPU, motherboard and RAM must all be up to the task.

Of course, I've found things are not that easily. The last time I checked AMD had Socket A CPUs out.. now there seems to be Socket 739 and 939 (or similar) as well as Semprons and such. I've no idea which which. If people could clarify this, it'd be welcome.

Likewise there's a new breed of motherboards out with no AGP slot but with PCI-X instead. The last time I checked, PCI-X was not backward compatable with AGP and so the motherboard would be useless with the Radeon 9800 I plan to put in it.

Suffice to say, if someone might explain what a good choice would be, or point me in the direction of somewhere that can sumarise my choices - I'd be greatful.

 

Offline Martinus

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[color=66ff00]Build an abit nf7 based system, tres cheap and you can put bartons on that board.

Will be speedy enough for whatever wordprocessing/surfing/etc. your dad will get up to and the parts are tried and tested. Don't think the rendering and photoshopping will suffer much either.

I'm sure there are other comparable boards too with better features but it's a solid setup. :nod:
[/color]

 

Offline Taristin

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http://secure.newegg.com/app/WishHistoryReview.asp?position=HISTORY&submit=VIEW&ID=1413651


I want to build this one for when I go away to school in the fall.
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Offline Taristin

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Quote
Originally posted by Kalfireth

Of course, I've found things are not that easily. The last time I checked AMD had Socket A CPUs out.. now there seems to be Socket 739 and 939 (or similar) as well as Semprons and such. I've no idea which which. If people could clarify this, it'd be welcome.

Likewise there's a new breed of motherboards out with no AGP slot but with PCI-X instead. The last time I checked, PCI-X was not backward compatable with AGP and so the motherboard would be useless with the Radeon 9800 I plan to put in it.
 


Socket A are the Athlons. A good solid chip. Nothing wrong with them, but they're being phased out... :sigh:

Socket 754 is athlon 64/sempron. Sempron is a chip that fits into the same slot, and somehow offers the 'enhanced virus protection' BS, but isn't 64-bit. (IIRC)

Socket 939 and 940 are the server chips, I think.

And yes, the PCI-X mobos, while probably better for the future, are not really necessary. Especially if you already have the 9800
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Offline pyro-manic

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Erm, I'll give it a shot:

AMD have discontinued the Athlon XP (uses Socket A). The Sempron replaces the Duron, and uses the same Socket 754 as the early Athlon 64 chips did, but it's still 32-bit.

PCI-X is PCI Express. It's used for new graphics cards, but most are still made as AGP cards as well (my Radeon X800 Pro is AGP 8x, and it's less than 6 months old). It's the "future" of mobos, apparently, but they're more expensive than AGP boards IIRC.

As for suggestions, my setup is an Athlon 64 3500+, and 1Gb of memory (runs everything very well). My motherboard is an Asus A8V Deluxe - Socket 939, SATA support (2 controllers), on board sound, built-in Wifi card, etc. It's an excellent board, and I would recommend it. You can probably get an A64 3500+ for about a hundred quid now, and the gig of memory is probably what to aim for (becoming the standard now). You could go for a Sempron instead of the A64, but obviously they're not as powerful, and you lose the 64-bit capability for when that becomes the norm in the next year or two...

I know nothing about Intel's processors, however. They've stopped naming them by clock speed, and have given them funny designations instead ("Pentium 4 360" etc). I've no idea what they mean, though.
Any fool can pull a trigger...

  

Offline Liberator

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A few things:

The Athlon64 comes in two flavors: Socket 754 and Socket 939.  The 754 is terminal, with production scheduled to be ended sometime later this year.  So if upgradeability is important definately go 939.

Also, DDR2 is out.  So you probably want to get a board that uses this if upgradeablity it important.

If graphics don't matter, but upgradeabilty does, you want a board that supports PCI-E.  You don't have to put a godlike card in it, an x300 should suit fine for what you're saying it will be used for.

You also want S-ATA support, I've seen some boards that have only 1 IDE port for the optical drives and nothing but S-ATA ports for the HDDs.  You don't have to get 10,000 rpm drives, 7200s also show some marginal improvement over a S-ATA bus.
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

There are only 10 types of people in the world , those that understand binary and those that don't.

 

Offline Taristin

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my 7200 rpm sata is faster than any HDD i've used yet.  Seagate makes it...
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Offline Fineus

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Thanks guys... I won't reply individually and point-for-point just yet but I will also mention that upgradability in this case doesn't matter. The plan is this:

As my own machine has died (for reasons unknown) and won't boot to POST - my dad has decided it's time he upgraded his so that I have a fallback machine. He's also tired that his (P2 350) is so slow. About time.

Suffice to say, I'll be asking it to run 3DS Max, Photoshop... MS Office... the first two being the most intensive applications. I'll be buying a 9800 Pro and a Audigy 2 ZS sound card for gaming as both are (relatively) cheap. I won't be looking for absolute gaming performance out of this though... he'll be the one who uses it most and he doesn't play games. Given that games are an after-thought and the apps I've mentioned should run fine on a currently up-to-date system - upgrading isn't a must.

 

Offline pyro-manic

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You could do worse than finding an Athlon XP 3200 and an Asus A7N8X mobo then. They'll be really cheap now, and will perform very well. :)
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Offline Liberator

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Just so you know?

We do ship internationally.
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

There are only 10 types of people in the world , those that understand binary and those that don't.

 

Offline Grey Wolf

The advice in this thread has been sound, but I feel a need to correct something.  The replacement for both PCI and AGP is PCI-E, or PCI Express. PCI-X is something entirely different that's used in server motherboards.
You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw

 
 

Offline Liberator

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If you are builing a budget box get the Retail version, it comes with it's own HSF so you don't have to go hunting for one.  It's not the greatest, but it gets the job done.
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

There are only 10 types of people in the world , those that understand binary and those that don't.

 

Offline Scuddie

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I thought I might come in and say a few things, considering I visit TomsHardware almost daily.  There are alot of discrepancies in this thread, and I hope to clear many of them up.

First of all, as of now, there is no reason to get PCIe over even 4x AGP for a mid-level PC.  It's not practical at all.  Also, computers have been in a transitional phase for a while, but nothing has been solidified yet.  It would be a big mistake to buy current technology at this point if you want something that will last (SKT754 proves that).

Anyway, here are some details.  The former Socket A has "unofficially" been re-named Socket 462, and Socket 939 has "unofficially" taken the name of Socket A.  Socket 462 is being phased out, but there are still plenty of suppliers and backstock.  This tech absolutely hasn't been abandoned yet.

AMD spent many a dollar on SKT754, it iwas meant to be the interface for mainstream 64bit CPUs.  However, they knew it would be a mistake to seperate mid-level and upper-level CPUs by socket.  SKT940 was used initially for the Opteron series of server CPUs.  Later, as the AMD64 CPUs were introduced, the upper-end FX CPUs were aimed at using SKT940.  However, the segregation problem was taken into consideration, and now SKT940 is solely used for Opteron CPUs.  Enter SKT939, the new "Socket A".  This interface was designed to take the common of both A64 and AFX CPUs and provide a common ground for people who wish to use 64bit processing.

The Athlon64 is just a regular 64bit CPU.  It has the standard 64-bit extensions, a good amount of cache, and a simple architechture.  Currently uses SKT754 and SKT939, although SKT754 A64s are no longer in production.
The AthlonFX is AMD's flagship 64bit CPU.  This thing usually has a large amount of cache (1MB or 2MB), several failsafe features (it requires REG ECC memory, for example), and is based off the same architecture as the Opteron.  Uses SKT939
The Sempron is just an A64s that was stripped of the 64bit extensions and cache.  To compare it with a duron would be appropriate.  They are currently the sole user of SKT754

DDR has evolved over time, ofcourse, and now DDR-2 is the newcomer.  However, just as DDR was in it's infancy, DDR-2 is not worth the extra money.  Cheap DDR-2 has absurd response times.  4-6-6-10 response time isn't uncommon.  Right now, there is no justification for using DDR-2 over DDR.  It's too early in the game yet.

SATA is a good rock solid interface.  I would not reccommend against it for any reason, except for compatibility issues with older OSes.


Anyhow, with that said, you could get a very nice system for ~$500 US.  You dont need a GeForce 6 series card, so a GF4Ti 4200 would suit nicely ($80).  The motherboard is the heart of the system, and you dont want to spare any expense for it.  Get yourself a MSI K7N2 Delta or an ASUS A7N8X ($90-110 depending on the features (DONT GET INTEGRATED GFX, OR THE LITE SERIES!!)).  Use MatthewPapa's idea and get a 3200+ ($140, buy retail).  Also, get a good quality stick of 512 PC3200 ($60).  You still have $100 budget left on a case.  Buy whatever you want, it doesnt matter much.  Just make sure it's ATX and has a PSU of atleast 400w.

I hope you find my long, rambling post informative.  But knowing me, I probably got too far into the details.  Sorry :(.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2005, 03:15:36 pm by 739 »
Bunny stole my signature :(.

Sorry boobies.

 

Offline karajorma

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Quote
Originally posted by Scuddie
The former Socket A has "unofficially" been re-named Socket 462, and Socket 939 has "unofficially" taken the name of Socket A.


That is probably the most idiotic thing I've heard in months. Why not just call it Socket B or something :rolleyes:
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Offline Scuddie

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Because the A is for Athlon.  And since they are keeping the Athlon name, it's only common business practice to keep the socket name.  But I agree, it is very idiotic.
Bunny stole my signature :(.

Sorry boobies.

 

Offline karajorma

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I figured that they wanted the A for that reason but the slight marketing advantage of that is hugely overweighed by the marketing disadvantage that AMD have managed to make themselves look like complete twats by doing that. :D
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Offline vyper

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This is as bad as the Athlon numbering convention. We're ****ed.
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Offline Fineus

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Heh, at least you can understand I'm having problems seeing what's what.

Thanks for the responses and clarification guys. I'll try and put together a longer response with any questions I have tomorrow. You've been a great help :)

 

Offline Grey Wolf

Where have you heard S939 referred to as Socket A? I spend at least a half hour a day reading tech news sites, but I've never heard anyone call it that.
You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw