Author Topic: The Mother of All Star Wars Threads  (Read 23694 times)

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Offline übermetroid

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I liked the movie.  ...  But I liked the book more.

I hope there is an extended cut of the movie somewhere that fills in all the holes...
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thanks for the welcome :)

Quote
The original is normally considered to be closer to Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress than to 40s and 50s SF serials.


that's true... in fact one of the earlier drafts of Lucas script is almost a remake, albeit sci-fi flavored, of the Kurosawa film. Hehe... I was just trying to explain where he could have gotten the WAR! thingy.

The book is nice... for one thing, in that Vader birth scene it captures the emotion better than "nooooo" ever can.
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Offline aldo_14

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Quote
Originally posted by Grey Wolf
The original is normally considered to be closer to Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress than to 40s and 50s SF serials.


I think the prequel trilogy took design inspiration from them (40-50s serials) for the Naboo ships in particular, though.

 
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Quote
Originally posted by mister J
The book is nice... for one thing, in that Vader birth scene it captures the emotion better than "nooooo" ever can.

Are you talking about the movie novelization or the actual book? (Yes, there is a difference to me.)

 
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the book... I think :p
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Offline KappaWing

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First of all, sorry for reviving this thread, but I don't wanna get attacked for starting a new one.

Second of all, <<<>>>SPOILER WARNING!!!!111shiftone<<<>>>

Just saw it last night. I loved it. And I agree with Ace in that Anakin was probably created by Palpatine. The prophecy was that the chosen one would bring balance to the force. It said nothing about the fact that the chosen one might be created by a sith. It makes sense, as Palpatine had the ability to create life from Midi-chlorians, and Anakin had an über high Midi-chlorian count. I recall Qui-Con saying something along the lines of "It is possible that he was concieved of the Midi-Cholrians himself". What Qui Con didn't know is how he was concieved or why he was concieved at the time that he was. The Jedi believed that he was the Chosen One, and didnt think further than that. IMO, It was the Sith who actually fulfilled the prophecy by creating Anakin. Ironic that the Sith's own creation would eventually lead to their own destruction in ROTJ, and even more ironic that it was because of the chosen one's own son. In my opinion, this is what Lucas was aiming for.

On the movie, I think Grievous and especially Dooku were underused. I knew they died quickly to shift the focus to Anakin's predicament, but they really sorta dissapointed me. After AOTC I thought Dooku was gonna kick some serious arse before getting killed in Ep3, but it turns out that he was dealt with rather quickly. I also thought that Greivous would put of more of a fight, having FOUR FREAKING LIGHTSABERS and all.

For those people complaining about the "War!" In the beginning and Vaders cliche "Noooo!", those are really dumb things to complain about. I found the former to be a great introduction and the latter to be quite convincing IMO. If you want to be "cool" and hate the movie so much, than you could at least point out something that actually affected the movie. The acting wasn't top notch on Anakin or Padme's part (eg. "Youre breaking my heart."), but I thought that Palpatine was perfectly acted to be the cold hearted and selfish manipulator  he was. I also found that the scenes were put together quite well, so much that I was in tears at the end of the "order 66" sequence, and was utterly shocked when Anakin attacked Windu, which is quite a feat considering I already know whats going to happen. This, along with other reasons, is why I absolutley love this movie minus the Padme-Anakin romance crap. I think that was where the bad acting on their part really showed the most.

After Ep. 1 and 2, I didn't have high expectations coming into this, but I think that Ep 3 is right on par with 4, 5, and 6. Possibly, (I dare say), even better than the Original Trilogy.
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Offline adwight

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Kappa, I just saw it for the 3rd time and I have to agree with you.  The only scene in the movie that really makes me wince is the one with the love competition "I Love You More" "No, I Love You More."  Besides that this movie is on par with the original trilogy IMO.
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Offline Setekh

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"It's only because I'm in love..."
"No... it's because I'm so in love with you!"


[Setekh screams and tears his hear out]

After having watched it with a bunch of church friends last Friday, I'm going to say I enjoyed it. I did see a lot wrong with it, as you guys have pointed out, but all in all I was focusing on how it reconnected the prequels to the original series. I feel I appreciate 4, 5 and 6 much more now. I'm going to go rent A New Hope sometime this week and rewatch it. :)
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Offline Unknown Target

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My favorite scene: when Anakin marched on the Jedi Temple with the legion of clone troops.

My favorite actor: The medical droid when Padme' was giving birth.

By the way, how much do you think a VHS collection of the original three Star Wars tapes, plus an original "Making of Star Wars" would go for nowadays? Considering that they're not made anymore, and Lucas is only selling his "Super deluxe remastered" version? I'm not selling, just curious.

EDIT: And I just rewatched ANH. God, that movie is so much fun, and the actors are so much better than the prequels. They actually feel human, and the jokes they say are for the most part actually funny, not corny one-liners.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2005, 10:16:05 pm by 368 »

 

Offline TopAce

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Quote
Originally posted by KappaWing
....
[Long winded review]


[-----Spoilers, here, too-----]

If it is really Palpatine who made Anakin, there would be mention of it somewhere, official one, I think. Your theory makes sense, anyway and I pretty much like it. :yes:
As for tears: It is not the Order 66 that almost made me break out it tears: Rather Padme's death and her funeral in the end.
As for acting and romance: I have no problem with these at all. Acting was not bad, in my opinion and the romance added to the movie, made it colourful even in the darkest days of the Republic.
And in what parts is it better than any of the original ones? There are more battle-scenes in this one than in the three subsequent episodes added.
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Offline Unknown Target

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The acting was stilted and emotionless, and because of that, I felt no attachement to any of the characters. Whether they died or not had no meaning, as to me they were simply 1D people who existed for the sole purpose of carrying the special effects from scene to scene. That's why when Padme died, when the Republic fell, and when Anakin turned, it had no effect,  simply because none of them seemed real.

 

Offline Flipside

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Though I note you liked the Emperor, Kappa, who happens to be the only transplanted actor from the original films ;)

I still prefer the originals, better story, better acting, and you didn't know what would happen next, you're never left on the edge of your seat when Obi-Wan is being chased through the Asteroids in AOTC, because you know he can't be killed, since he's still alive (and aged by about 40 years) 20 odd years later.

I think it's that knowledge that means that it will always boil down to which was the better-made film, and I still think it was the original movies.

 

Offline Ace

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The main problem with the prequels is a lack of good secondary characters.

Primarily non-Jedi characters who we don't know what their fates will be.

For example, taking a few KOTOR1/2 characters and tossing them in:

Obi-Wan's old friend, Bao-Dur is a tech specialist for the Republic forces. He's the one who builds Anakin's mechanical arm, tags along to give firesupport in many of the battles and in the end is killed by Vader when trying to turn him back to the lightside. There's some exploration of his species and his attempts to keep from succumbing to revenge since his world was destroyed by the Sepratists.

Mira, a bounty hunter, was an old spacing companion of Anakin's (assuming that the prequels would start with him as a 20-30 year old character) who has a romantic interest in him. She has quite a grudge against Jango Fett, and often makes sarcastic remarks about how she's supposed to be the one who was cloned since she could do a better job. Pretty much a "man-izer" who holds her liquor and makes comments about how she'd like to strap stun-cuffs on any man she finds slightly attractive. She winds up dying when saving Obi-Wan from the clone betrayal, holding off a crack squad of Commandos.

Then the Jedi themselves needed some more characterization. Only Yoda and Mace seemed to have some dialog, there wasn't any sense of dynamics in the council.

Toss in Atris from KOTOR2, and then you have massive changes. The chronicler of the archives who has never had a padawan, screams about how Anakin is the doom of the council, is angered that she isn't allowed on the front lines, etc. A character people love to hate, and she jumps at the chance to kill Anakin when he enters the Jedi temple. She is defeated only because in her rage and anger she realizes that she's beating him through the darkside, stops for a moment, and then Anakin starts tossing her around the room, smashing her into pillars, with the force in retribution.

Dooku would have been a good villain, if he was in all three movies. Same with Greivous. Dooku and some of the lost Jedi could have led to some great scenes in Ep 1 and 2, especially if he honestly thought he was fighting the Sith but wound up dipping into the darkside to do it. In the end his attempts to defeat the Sith were what destroyed the Republic. Turn him into a tragic figure, the audience wants him to win and is frustrated at the inflexibility of the Jedi to join him against Plapatine who they believe will step down when the war ends. Have that the Jedi council believes that the Sith were annihilated and that the prophecy refers to Dooku since his actions are like those of a Sith, not realising that the True Sith lie in wait.

Anyway, secondary characters are where you add flavor in such a prequel. People that you don't know what will happen to them, so you can toss in some surprises and tragedy.

Similarly unexpected twists such as Anakin being a model Jedi, leaving the order for his romance (end of Episode I), and then taking on the force again to protect her (Episode II) from the sepratists and the only one willing to teach him is an exiled Jedi like Kreia from KOTOR2. Obi-Wan wants to teach him, but is forbidden by the council. Hell, ripping off KOTOR2 further, the Kreia type character might even be Palpatine's master and she's the one to hints to Anakin about Dooku not being his enemy but the True Sith hiding at the heart of the galaxy.

His using the force to protect a person, not the galaxy, leads him down the path that eventually has him making a pact with Palpy to save his wife.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2005, 09:12:30 pm by 72 »
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Offline WMCoolmon

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Something I pieced together today/yesterday while watching ROTJ:

I'm not sure if Palps was faking getting owned by Windu or not - all the circumstantial evidence points to it, but the scene in ROTJ seems to point against it. In both cases, Palpatine is reliant on Anakin to save him from another lightsabred foe. But in the latter case, whether he could've force-lightning'd Mace harder than he was is really unclear. It seems stupid to force himself into that position - but the situation really did work out great for Palpatine. If he had killed the Jedi all right away, he'd have to explain away (or get rid of) the bodies. He'd have gotten rid of the upper echelons of the temple leadership, but how would he gain from it? Not much, as any attempt to blame the Jedi for rebelling would be much more circumstancial and much less proven.

What I do think should've been done is for Yoda to hide his powers until Episode 3. Mace could've shown up and rescued Anakin and Obi-wan from Dooku. Then in Ep3, the only point where Yoda is really seen using his powers is in the confrontation with Palpatine. That seems to me like it would've been much better...screw making Yoda out into a great warrior beforehand, just make the battle so damn incredible that it's obvious that Yoda had much more mastery of the force than anyone else. It would've worked out much better for both trilogies ("Do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor")

I really wonder at the prequels though. Going by the OT, it seems like there was so much more that could've been done. The films have sound literary themes, have backed-up messages (and realizing that the films are making something of a statement, that I disagree with, I may enjoy them much less now...) but really fall short in the were-they-as-good-as-they-could-have-been dept. (Talking about the prequels here).

The lessons Lucas is tryng to teach in the new films seem very cynical though...there's a jarring difference between the two trilogies. While the OT the characters win out because of their fighting for justice, in the PT Palpatine wins out by lack of emotion and intelligence and manipulation. If Lucas were to do the OT over again, I'm almost certain that DV's character would be weakened and Palpatine's strengthened.

Also, something else that pisses me off, the complaints about the love scene dialogue. How it's worded is very important. Anakin and Padme are not people to be overtly sincere. Both are used to having their guard up - Anakin's a Jedi, Padme's a politician, and both know that they'd be in huge trouble if word of the relationship got out. Neither are they exceptionally witty and creative with words. Nor do they see each other much. They're both in the sort of silly-jokes phase, thinly disguising their fear of rejection.

Not to mention that the dialogue in the OT wasn't much better as far as romance was concerned. :p So I think the language in the PT was intentionally cringe-worthy.
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Offline WMCoolmon

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Also, yeah, some secondary characters would've been nice...especially ones that didn't die, and instead went into hiding or somesuch.

ie a Bao-Dur-like character could be in the whole trilogy, then end up being forced to think that Obi-wan is dead because he's being monitored. Or characters that are pressed into service as attendants on board the Death Star...

In a sense, it was done, but not for any major characters. The younglings, for example. Jar-jar it could've been done with, and I wonder if Lucas originally intended to have Anakin threaten audiences until it came out that everyone hated him anyways. :p

Padme was one such character, except she was major enough to Anakin and the plot in general that she pretty much had to die (or seem to have died).

Mace Windu and the other Masters were almost there, except nobody really got much characterization. We never saw the human side of the Council, so to speak.

Actually, one thing I really have to commend in the PT...the sunset scene at the end of Ep3 was really good. I dunno if it was the placement, the music, or what, but it got me tearing up in the theater, although the audience was somewhat less than completely respectful of the movie.

Ahh, well. I should probably STFU and go to sleep, unless I can figure out some way to work all this into a term paper... :p
-C

 

Offline TopAce

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Quote
Originally posted by Flipside
....you're never left on the edge of your seat when Obi-Wan is being chased through the Asteroids in AOTC, because you know he can't be killed, since he's still alive (and aged by about 40 years) 20 odd years later.
...


Obi-Wan was sixty years old when Vader slew him on the Death Star.
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Offline aldo_14

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Quote
Originally posted by TopAce


Obi-Wan was sixty years old when Vader slew him on the Death Star.


Alec Guiness was 63 when the first Star Wars was released.  Ewan McGregor was 31 when AOTC (and 34 when ROTS) was released.

 

Offline TopAce

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I was not talking of the actor, I was talking of the character.
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Offline aldo_14

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And I was talking of the relative age difference between the actors playing the character, which is what Flip was referring to.

 

Offline TopAce

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Then I misunderstood the post.
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