[phreak]

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=episode3

[an0n]

The single most annoying thing about ROTS - aside from the acting - is that there's no inner conflict with Annakin.

He basically gets pissed off at everyone treating him like a retard and decides the best way to deal with them is to side with Palpatine and butcher them all.

He basically was stupid and went crazy. Whereas Vader is smart, cunning, a fencer.

The kinda-hinted backstory during the Original Trilogy being that he'd fought for so long with the Jedi to make the galaxy a better place, but it had just never worked. So he turned to Palpatine and his prophetic visions as a way of restoring order after the Clone Wars, which caused the Jedi Order to turn on him and Obi Wan to butcher him. Then the permenant one-layer detachment from the world and his anger at being crippled drove him to become Lord Vader.

ROTS was basically: "Grrr. You don't trust me - NOW YOU DIE! *swoosh* ARGH! NOT IN THE FACE!"

[Sandwich]

ROTS was far, faaar worse than TPM and AOTC, even though it doesn't really seem so... until you think about it:

- Opening space battle: So, it just peters and stops once the Jedi land on the ship and start crashing it? Was that what it was about? One ship? Also, those mouse droid things annoying the piss out of the fighters... why, oh why, did it not occur to those powerful Jedi Knights and Masters to use a teeny tiny bit of the Force to sweep those critters off their ships??
- I need to see the movie again to argue this point better, since it was very forgettable, but there was some major conflict in how the Jedi handled Dooku and how they handled Palpatine... or rather, how they handled Anakin's handling of those situations.
- Yoda on the Wookie planet... why? That whole scene had absolutely NO bearing on the story WHATsoever... and the gratituous Chewie cameo was just salt on an already open wound.
- That bad-ass robot/Jedi General, Grevious (what's with the sucky names, Lucas??!?)... where was his bad-assness?? He had 4 seperate lightsabers, yet Obi-wan was able to hold him off with ONE???
- The "romantic" dialogue between Anakin and Padme... "I love you cuz you're pretty..." "No, I love you more..." "No, I love YOU more!" "No, I -" {*****-slap}
- Palpatine's retarded "Power!!!" chant before they take down Mace... I felt like puking. That belonged in The Incredibles, or in Spiderman... not in SW.
- Anakin's betrayal indeed happened far too fast to be reasonable, but perhaps that was the point...
- Anakin's lava battle with Obi-Wan was the ONLY redeeming part of the whole movie, a part which they promptly ruined y segueing to....
- "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Darth Frankenstein, indeed.
- Continuity error: in ROTJ (#6), Leia says she remembers her mother was very beautiful, but sad. How did she know this, since Padme freakin DIES right after childbirth??

To sum up, I'll say it one more time: Lucas: Stop sucking!

[an0n]

The other annoying thing about Episode 3 is that you need a legion of fanbois to fill in the gaps so it makes sense:

- Opening space battle: So, it just peters and stops once the Jedi land on the ship and start crashing it? Was that what it was about? One ship? Also, those mouse droid things annoying the piss out of the fighters... why, oh why, did it not occur to those powerful Jedi Knights and Masters to use a teeny tiny bit of the Force to sweep those critters off their ships??

The reason the battle stopped was because Greivous was the only reason the Seperatists weren't wiped out years ago. With him floating off into space the fleet was basically ****ed. And the whole point of the attack was to cause a distraction while they captured Palpatine to try and force the Republic to surrender. So when that failed, and with Greivous incapacitated, the fleet bugged out. And they never force-pushed the droids off the ships because they're idiots.

- I need to see the movie again to argue this point better, since it was very forgettable, but there was some major conflict in how the Jedi handled Dooku and how they handled Palpatine... or rather, how they handled Anakin's handling of those situations.

They only wanted Dooku alive so they could press him about who the Sith Lord was and gain strategic information from him to help with the war. Palpatine's life held no value and his continued existence only served as a threat to the Republic.

- Yoda on the Wookie planet... why? That whole scene had absolutely NO bearing on the story WHATsoever... and the gratituous Chewie cameo was just salt on an already open wound.

Merchandising. And possibly to show that Chewie isn't just a thug and had reasons for hating the Empire. But I liked him better as a regular alien thug.

- That bad-ass robot/Jedi General, Grevious (what's with the sucky names, Lucas??!?)... where was his bad-assness?? He had 4 seperate lightsabers, yet Obi-wan was able to hold him off with ONE???

He was a killing machine in Clone Wars, but Windu crushes his chest right at the end, which is why he's wheezing and can't fight for **** in ROTS.

- The "romantic" dialogue between Anakin and Padme... "I love you cuz you're pretty..." "No, I love you more..." "No, I love YOU more!" "No, I -" {*****-slap}

Yeah, and the fact that neither of them can act didn't exactly improve the scene either.

- Palpatine's retarded "Power!!!" chant before they take down Mace... I felt like puking. That belonged in The Incredibles, or in Spiderman... not in SW.

They needed to kill Windu and they needed to cram how evil Palpatine is down your throat before they did.

- Anakin's betrayal indeed happened far too fast to be reasonable, but perhaps that was the point...

No. Vader was not an idiot. He was all deep and complex and ****.

- Anakin's lava battle with Obi-Wan was the ONLY redeeming part of the whole movie, a part which they promptly ruined y segueing to....

It would've been good if it hadn't been about 3 hours long. Actually, no, it was **** anyway. I'm not a fan of all this Samurai bull**** - the fencing of the Original Trilogy was far superior.

- "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Darth Frankenstein, indeed.

That was by far the single stupidest part of the movie - especially given that he was actively trying to kill Padme anyway.

- Continuity error: in ROTJ (#6), Leia says she remembers her mother was very beautiful, but sad. How did she know this, since Padme freakin DIES right after childbirth??

The Force, foo. She was Force-sensetive even before birth.

[karajorma]

- Continuity error: in ROTJ (#6), Leia says she remembers her mother was very beautiful, but sad. How did she know this, since Padme freakin DIES right after childbirth??

Leia didn't know she was adopted. Maybe she was talking about someone other than Padme and Luke was too thick to realise it


As for Anikin's convertion that's the worst part of the movie for me. Much more sensible would have been to handle it like someone good trying to use the One Ring. At first he would have tried to use the dark side for good but slowly been tempted away by its power. That's pretty much the way everyone envisioned it happening after the first trilogy anyway.

[Sandwich]

Actually, Portman can act quite well... it's just that nobody in the new trilogy was allowed to act. Heck, for that matter, Hayden may be a good actor...

And Leia DID know she was adopted; Luke asked specifically, "do you remember your mother? Your real mother?"

[an0n]

Hayden is a ****ty actor.

Look at that 'Shattered Glass' or whatever the **** it was called. He's balls.

[Fineus]

- Yoda on the Wookie planet... why? That whole scene had absolutely NO bearing on the story WHATsoever... and the gratituous Chewie cameo was just salt on an already open wound.

Merchandising. And possibly to show that Chewie isn't just a thug and had reasons for hating the Empire. But I liked him better as a regular alien thug.

Yoda was most likely there as - if you look at the situation - all the Jedi were out and about laying the smack down when they were betrayed. If Yoda had stayed behind at the Jedi Temple, he'd have had to fight Anakin/Vadar and kill him (or miraculously ignore the whole thing).

They needed him somewhere where he was cut off from events but could survive somehow for later. That's why.

[karajorma]

And Leia DID know she was adopted; Luke asked specifically, "do you remember your mother? Your real mother?"

Yeah but she had concussion at the time from falling off the speeder....ummm....yeah. that explains everything

[BlackDove]

The other annoying thing about Episode 3 is that you need a legion of fanbois to fill in the gaps so it makes sense:

No, it made perfect sense. I saw the cartoons (probably the high point of MURDER. I know everything there is to know.

It's DEAD. HE KILLED IT. HE TOOK HIS ****ING HAN...

We've been through that already.

[Ford Prefect]

Hayden is a ****ty actor.

Look at that 'Shattered Glass' or whatever the **** it was called. He's balls.

I actually thought he was quite good in Shattered Glass.

[pyro-manic]

I'm not a fan of all this Samurai bull**** - the fencing of the Original Trilogy was far superior.

While I agree in general - the whole wire-fu (poorly executed wire-fu at that) and flashy wushu crap that the new ones have had has been highly silly - I must point out that the Vader/Obi-Wan duel in Ep.4 is one of the worst pieces of swordplay, realistic or no, that I have ever seen. It's utter ****e. Vader's fight with Luke on Cloud City is very good, however. I can't remember much of the one on the Death Star in ROTJ (I haven't seen it for years), but the bit at the end where Vader loses his arm struck me as stupid. The rest I think was pretty good, though...

[Roanoke]

Both General Grevious and Windu were much better in Clone Wars.

[Flaser]

The other annoying thing about Episode 3 is that you need a legion of fanbois to fill in the gaps so it makes sense:

- Opening space battle: So, it just peters and stops once the Jedi land on the ship and start crashing it? Was that what it was about? One ship? Also, those mouse droid things annoying the piss out of the fighters... why, oh why, did it not occur to those powerful Jedi Knights and Masters to use a teeny tiny bit of the Force to sweep those critters off their ships??

The reason the battle stopped was because Greivous was the only reason the Seperatists weren't wiped out years ago. With him floating off into space the fleet was basically ****ed. And the whole point of the attack was to cause a distraction while they captured Palpatine to try and force the Republic to surrender. So when that failed, and with Greivous incapacitated, the fleet bugged out. And they never force-pushed the droids off the ships because they're idiots.

- I need to see the movie again to argue this point better, since it was very forgettable, but there was some major conflict in how the Jedi handled Dooku and how they handled Palpatine... or rather, how they handled Anakin's handling of those situations.

They only wanted Dooku alive so they could press him about who the Sith Lord was and gain strategic information from him to help with the war. Palpatine's life held no value and his continued existence only served as a threat to the Republic.

- Yoda on the Wookie planet... why? That whole scene had absolutely NO bearing on the story WHATsoever... and the gratituous Chewie cameo was just salt on an already open wound.

Merchandising. And possibly to show that Chewie isn't just a thug and had reasons for hating the Empire. But I liked him better as a regular alien thug.

- That bad-ass robot/Jedi General, Grevious (what's with the sucky names, Lucas??!?)... where was his bad-assness?? He had 4 seperate lightsabers, yet Obi-wan was able to hold him off with ONE???

He was a killing machine in Clone Wars, but Windu crushes his chest right at the end, which is why he's wheezing and can't fight for **** in ROTS.

- The "romantic" dialogue between Anakin and Padme... "I love you cuz you're pretty..." "No, I love you more..." "No, I love YOU more!" "No, I -" {*****-slap}

Yeah, and the fact that neither of them can act didn't exactly improve the scene either.

- Palpatine's retarded "Power!!!" chant before they take down Mace... I felt like puking. That belonged in The Incredibles, or in Spiderman... not in SW.

They needed to kill Windu and they needed to cram how evil Palpatine is down your throat before they did.

- Anakin's betrayal indeed happened far too fast to be reasonable, but perhaps that was the point...

No. Vader was not an idiot. He was all deep and complex and ****.

- Anakin's lava battle with Obi-Wan was the ONLY redeeming part of the whole movie, a part which they promptly ruined y segueing to....

It would've been good if it hadn't been about 3 hours long. Actually, no, it was **** anyway. I'm not a fan of all this Samurai bull**** - the fencing of the Original Trilogy was far superior.

- "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Darth Frankenstein, indeed.

That was by far the single stupidest part of the movie - especially given that he was actively trying to kill Padme anyway.

- Continuity error: in ROTJ (#6), Leia says she remembers her mother was very beautiful, but sad. How did she know this, since Padme freakin DIES right after childbirth??

The Force, foo. She was Force-sensetive even before birth.

Holy ****! I'm completly agreeing with an0n on this one. Granted he can be self-rightous bastard, but he's a clever bastard, when it comes to pointing out the obvious.

Even Kavin 'Junior' ****ing Anderson's Kyp Duron had more drama, though I've grown accustomed to the man selling sysnopses as novels.

Though you gotta give ROTS a few good points too:

Hayden is finally somewhat comfortable in the role. It's not evident during the fist watch, but he's developed something akin to a presence - he's no David Prowse by a far shot, but still- with an aura of confidence and power.
Though his demise into the darkside is shallow, (with a better story his fall could have indeed become a saga and tale of its own,) once there, his portrayal of a man who is tormented by his percieved betrayal and the self-fufilling prophecy of doom is not so bad.
No wonder his confrontation with Obi-Wan is the high point of the movie.

I also like that the jedi knights are *not* portrayed as the infallable pillars of justice and rightness that the original trilogy would have left us to believe.
The jedi are arrogant, stuck in their ivory tower. They tie themselves up in a dogma, while interpreting the actual code would puzzle even a jedi who tries to interpret it on his own. - On this side the conflict is done some 'political justice'.
The same can't be said about the Sith - when you get right down to it, they're just another bunch of totelitarian megalomanic bastards. Ian McDiarmid valiantly tries to infuse some semblance of ideology or rightsousness into them, but it remains just tucked on cosmetics.
(I'm a Sith sympatizer, though my image of an ideal Sith is closer to what Kyle Katarn portreys in the NJO books)

The definite high point of the movie - or all of the 'new trilogy' is Ewan McGregor's performance. The guy's fantastic. Granted the writting is ****ty, but he slips into Kenobi's guise with an enviable grace.

///////////////////////

End of the line:
If I want Star Wars - ergo drama with moral high tones about sacrifice and redemption - I'll go play the KOTOR series or read Timothy Zahn's and Michael Stackpole's books.

[Grey Wolf]

I'm honestly still annoyed with the fact that Jedi wear robes like Obi-Wan. HE WORE THOSE ROBES BECAUSE HE LIVED IN THE ****ING DESERT! Everyone there wore clothes along those lines.

[Unknown Target]

No, actually I'm pretty sure that all the jedi wear those robes because it "symbolizes that they are equals with all citizens" or something like that. But yea, ROTS was ****e.

[Dark RevenantX]

The movie makes as much sense as.... say.... The Demented Cartoon Movie

[Ransom]

The Demented Cartoon Movie's dialogue was much better thought out.

[vyper]

[q]The "romantic" dialogue between Anakin and Padme... "I love you cuz you're pretty..." "No, I love you more..." "No, I love YOU more!" "No, I -" [/q]

You've never done that?

[Sandwich]

[q]The "romantic" dialogue between Anakin and Padme... "I love you cuz you're pretty..." "No, I love you more..." "No, I love YOU more!" "No, I -" [/q]

You've never done that?

With Natalie Portman?? I WISH!