Author Topic: What is it with France and Riots.  (Read 2087 times)

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Offline redmenace

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What is it with France and Riots.
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyid=2006-03-23T180437Z_01_L23178518_RTRUKOC_0_US-FRANCE.xml&rpc=22

Honestly, I don't think they get anything accomplished unless they riot and destroy private property.
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.
              -Frederic Bastiat

 

Offline Zuljin

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Re: What is it with France and Riots.
Well most of them are protesting peacefully. It's the idiots who are out looking for trouble who make the headlines and get the most attention.
AFAIK, people like those are just using the demonstrations as an excuse to screw over others and loot shops etc.

 

Offline redmenace

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Re: What is it with France and Riots.
As per the CPE that they are protesting, I think that it is actually a positive thing.
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.
              -Frederic Bastiat

 

Offline Zuljin

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Re: What is it with France and Riots.
How so?
That law enables employers to fire a worker without any reasons what-so-ever, as long as they've been working there for less than two years.
In the age group of the affected people there will most likely be primarily students, and just suddenly getting fired for no reason at all in the middle of a school year isn't exactly a good thing.
Having an economic security as a student is a very good thing, as that will enable you to focus more on the studies instead of working your arse off to make the ends meet.

 

Offline an0n

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Re: What is it with France and Riots.
So you're whining because it'll stop students slacking off at work in favour of studying?

Go sit in the ****ing corner.
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
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Offline Zuljin

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Re: What is it with France and Riots.
I wasn't saying that.
If they should be able to have the job they should work for it too, if they don't they would just get fired anyway.
So in that regard, the law seems rather pointless.

 

Offline Rictor

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Re: What is it with France and Riots.
Riots are the French national pastime. Ever since they in to the spirit back during the Revolution, they've been going at it every few years. Especially student riots. It's all in good fun, just letting off some steam. A modern liberal society has very few outlets for agressive tendencies, so every once in a while you just to duke it out with the cops in the name of whatever. Jobs, socialism, the Republic...any cause will do.

 

Offline an0n

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Re: What is it with France and Riots.
It was done because students are inherantly lazy or consumed by non-work work.

Previously, you couldn't fire people for coming in 5 minutes late every day, looking just that little bit shabby and a little hung-over, because those things would've been ignored as trivial by an industrial tribunal and you'd have had to fork over thousands of Euros on compensation.

All this new law does is give employers the ability to fire people for general scruffiness and being an asshole.

I, personally, think that if you own your own company you should be allowed to hire and fire for whatever reason(s) you wish, if any.

I mean, if I build a £3trillion business, single-handedly generate enough tax to fund a small country and provide hundreds of thousands of people with employment - all as a result of my own hard work and financial risk - why the **** shouldn't I be able to fire someone from the company I've built with my own blood, sweat and tears because they're black and I'm racist?

It's the equivelant of the government forcing you to buy beer for people you hate every time you walk into a pub.
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
~-=~!@!~=-~ : Nodewar.com

 

Offline Turambar

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Re: What is it with France and Riots.
It was done because students are inherantly lazy or consumed by non-work work.

Previously, you couldn't fire people for coming in 5 minutes late every day, looking just that little bit shabby and a little hung-over, because those things would've been ignored as trivial by an industrial tribunal and you'd have had to fork over thousands of Euros on compensation.

All this new law does is give employers the ability to fire people for general scruffiness and being an asshole.

I, personally, think that if you own your own company you should be allowed to hire and fire for whatever reason(s) you wish, if any.

I mean, if I build a £3trillion business, single-handedly generate enough tax to fund a small country and provide hundreds of thousands of people with employment - all as a result of my own hard work and financial risk - why the **** shouldn't I be able to fire someone from the company I've built with my own blood, sweat and tears because they're black and I'm racist?

It's the equivelant of the government forcing you to buy beer for people you hate every time you walk into a pub.

-are you a student?  do you not like students for some reason?
-its not the upstart company that anyone put blood sweat and tears into that students end up working for.  students usually work at big supermarkets, with faceless ownership and incompetent management
-and if they fire people for being assholes, you'd never hold down a job
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
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Offline Fineus

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Re: What is it with France and Riots.
Another item of consideration... what happens when your next employer asks for a reference? Do you have "fired for being a student" stamped on your work history? Could anyone take thatseriously? It seems like a cop-out to me.

 

Offline an0n

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Re: What is it with France and Riots.
The simple fact is, no company should ever be legally obliged to provide anyone with employment (with the exception of contracted employees).

It's bull**** quasi-politics used by governments to make it look like they're improving the economy because employment is down, when really the economy is still going to **** and it's just that companies are too scared to fire anyone because they'll end up with 10k students standing outside whining about how "he was only 5hrs late for work one time".

And yes, I do have something against students. Specifically, the ones who take protesting as some kind of carte-blanche for voicing their bull****, utopian ideals about subjects that don't ****ing affect them in any way, shape or form and are purely and completely academic.

The only people who're gonna be affected by this change in the law are ****-ups. The same kind of ****-ups who'll go skiving off work to attend a ****ing protest march. You do your ****ing job, keep your **** together and do what you're being paid to do and you keep your job.

And to be perfectly honest, students are the last people who need employment. Just because they're wasting thousands on education doesn't give them any special privileges when it comes to employment. They don't need to go to University - it's a luxury.

And, might I add, they're completely ignoring the fact that young people can find jobs infinitely more easily than older people. So all they're doing by passing this law and making them easier to fire is ensuring that when an older person does manage to get a job, they're more likely to keep it because the young guy they work with is just easier for the management to fire.
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
~-=~!@!~=-~ : Nodewar.com

 

Offline an0n

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Re: What is it with France and Riots.
Another item of consideration... what happens when your next employer asks for a reference? Do you have "fired for being a student" stamped on your work history? Could anyone take thatseriously? It seems like a cop-out to me.

Because they know they're firing you simply for being a student, they'll feel bad and give you better references.
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
~-=~!@!~=-~ : Nodewar.com

 

Offline Fineus

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Re: What is it with France and Riots.
Then they should be able to fire people for consistently being late, hung over or shabby in appearence. Those are reasons I could cope with as - if I work for a company - I should be taught to uphold that standard as any adult worker should.

But simply being a student is not grounds for dismissal with no explanation. That doesn't teach young people anything except that the world is corrupt and unfair (which granted are good things to learn). But it sure as hell won't motivate them to work any harder as - what's the point - they'd only be fired again with no explanation.

It'd be like punishing a puppy simply for being a puppy, rather than showing it that peeing on the carpet is wrong. The puppy learns nothing except an inbred resentment.

 

Offline Turambar

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Re: What is it with France and Riots.
i like to think that maybe if some of the people with utopian ideals survive employment, maybe a few of those ideals will get through and the world actually -will- become a better place to live in. 

also, i remember coming into work usually about 5 minutes early every day, and not looking too shabby (the long hair, sometimes its difficult), and never being hung over (didn't even let the flu keep me home).  If i was fired just because i couldnt work the right set of hours, i'd be ****in pissed
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 

Offline an0n

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Re: What is it with France and Riots.
People should be fired for being students. As the rioting proves, they're ****ing jerks.

I sure as **** wouldn't want a goddamn civil insurgent handing me my coffee in the morning.

i like to think that maybe if some of the people with utopian ideals survive employment, maybe a few of those ideals will get through and the world actually -will- become a better place to live in.

Yeah, they tried that in the 60's. Didn't work.

Infact, Nazi facism and their general stance on genocide did more for the advancement of mankind than free love and drug abuse ever did.

Utopianism only works to the point where natural law turns on you. You could build a beautiful communist paradise and live for 10k years in glorious wonder - then have an asteroid wipe out the species because 'bombs are bad'.

Hell, you wouldn't even need an asteroid. You'd just need one guy with a gun and the will to use it. The only way any of the Utopian ****s could stop him would be to use violence, in which case even though he's defeated, violence triumphs over pacifism.

Put simply, violence defeats both violence and pacifism in all people. Pacifism doesn't really defeat anything and requires people to essentially surrender to it. At least some of the dip**** students understand this - which is why they started fighting.
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
~-=~!@!~=-~ : Nodewar.com

 

Offline Flipside

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Re: What is it with France and Riots.
That's why Anarchy is the natural state for mankind, the Police only work because we allow it to, if people suddenly decided that they preferred not to have Police, they outnumber them thousands to one.

Fortunately, most people prefer order, but the greatest achievers and the greatest villains in History are people who have realised that the rules only apply to them if they want them to.

 

Offline an0n

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Re: What is it with France and Riots.
Exactly. As I keep saying: Mwuahahahahahaaaa.....
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
~-=~!@!~=-~ : Nodewar.com

 

Offline Rictor

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Re: What is it with France and Riots.
I wouldn't over-analyze the situation too much. Yeah, yeah, it's about jobs. And why not throw in freedom, peace, justice and baby kittens, just for the hell of it. You're 25, financially secure, living in one of the most prosperous countries on the planet and the most exciting thing you've done in the past month is play Halo 2 for a few hours. Of course you want to go riot, that's where all the fun is. I would if I were them. You know the cops aren't going to do anything serious, and the crowd ensures that you will never be held personally responsible for anything you do. Under those conditions, would anyone here not join the rioting?

 

Offline Martinus

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Re: What is it with France and Riots.
I find it ironic that you're waxing lyrical about ****ing with 'the man' and terrorising when things that you don't agree with pop up, yet when a bunch of students in France get pissed because they're being ****ed over you claim they're dicks?

As for their protesting, at least they're putting some effort into trying to change opinions rather than ranting about it to a bunch of guys on a web forum.

I'm not saying that they will get anywhere; governments are not well known for keeping the best interests of their people at heart, but at least they're trying.

Now the under 26's can be fired for voicing an opinion contrary to the management's, fired because they don't believe in the same religion as the management, fired because they come from an area the boss doesn't like, fired for suggesting a different store to a customer when they don't have what the customer is looking for, fired for not agreeing to push low quality goods to people.
And they won't have any kind of legal support because there won't be a reason for their dismissal.

 

Offline Flipside

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Re: What is it with France and Riots.
I suppose my main concern is that this opens the door to things like sexual harrasment of young female employees by their bosses etc.