[Black Wolf]

If we terraformed antarctica and relocated israel there (this is assuming future technology of course) we can leave muslims their palestine and the jews get the new antarctica.

Bugger off. Even if you were being serious (which I know you weren't) it'd be a bad idea because Antarctica is going to become, inevitably, the next big oil exporter. No way anyone's giving anyone who doesn't already have one a foothold down there.

And Charismatic - Every day you remind me why I worry so much about the human race. If the admins would ban for stupid, you'd be gone so fast your head would spin..

[aldo_14]

Not at all. We were farmers, they are fags. No comparison.

Was that a disgustingly racist comment referring to native Americans, or did you just forget to add in some sort of context to explain it?

1 israle soldier to 65 pala's. 2 for 2000 pala's, and 3 for around 3500 palas.

I say, go israle! I say 'kill all the palastinions and\or kick them of israles land (gaza strip and the other place. West bank?)'. I say israle, dont take ****, go kick their ass. Give no one of their fukin ases back. Kill all 2000 and ship their heads to them and threaton the laboninites, to give israle their guys back or they will kick majoir ass. Thats how thsi **** should be done.
Israle should take back its birthright land.
This whole arab\muslim thing all hapened cauze israle did a dumbass move and disobeyed god way back when. Now look at the trouble its gettin them into? Constant wars with the group of people they should have wiped out in the first place b4 they became a problem.

~Ephili~

Yes, kill the Crusaders, inhabiting our birthland!  Wait, no, the other ones!  ****!  This quasi-fascistic, extremist bull**** gets so confusing sometimes; which arbitrary slaughter of innocents/random war crime are we supposed to be calling for based on an assumption of what (a) God wants, again?

[Jetmech Jr.]

Was that a disgustingly racist comment referring to native Americans, or did you just forget to add in some sort of context to explain it?

I think he was referring to the Arab Extremists. I could be wrong, though.

As for the likely upcoming war...its about ****ing time. I hope Israel takes off the kidgloves this time.

[achtung]

I hope the conflict doesn't grow to affect any regions beyond the Middle-East, or this could turn into a serious ordeal.

[aldo_14]

Was that a disgustingly racist comment referring to native Americans, or did you just forget to add in some sort of context to explain it?

I think he was referring to the Arab Extremists. I could be wrong, though.

As for the likely upcoming war...its about ****ing time. I hope Israel takes off the kidgloves this time.

Well, I hope so, which is why I'm asking for the context.  Albiet even then 'fag' is only acceptable when applied to extremists, i.e. not to all the poor bastards who invariably get hurt in the crossfire.  Let's not forget it's the innocents who suffer most, after all.

[Jetmech Jr.]

Was that a disgustingly racist comment referring to native Americans, or did you just forget to add in some sort of context to explain it?

I think he was referring to the Arab Extremists. I could be wrong, though.

As for the likely upcoming war...its about ****ing time. I hope Israel takes off the kidgloves this time.

Well, I hope so, which is why I'm asking for the context.  Albiet even then 'fag' is only acceptable when applied to extremists, i.e. not to all the poor bastards who invariably get hurt in the crossfire.  Let's not forget it's the innocents who suffer most, after all.

I haven't forgotten, and I already feel sorry for those people. But sadly, it comes with the territory when you support the outright destruction of a nation that rather easily blows your own forces sky-high.

[aldo_14]

Well, I hope so, which is why I'm asking for the context.  Albiet even then 'fag' is only acceptable when applied to extremists, i.e. not to all the poor bastards who invariably get hurt in the crossfire.  Let's not forget it's the innocents who suffer most, after all.

I haven't forgotten, and I already feel sorry for those people. But sadly, it comes with the territory when you support the outright destruction of a nation that rather easily blows your own forces sky-high.

Does it come with the terroritory if you support the outright destruction of a nation that is rather easily blown sky high by your forces, though?

[Jetmech Jr.]

Well, I hope so, which is why I'm asking for the context.  Albiet even then 'fag' is only acceptable when applied to extremists, i.e. not to all the poor bastards who invariably get hurt in the crossfire.  Let's not forget it's the innocents who suffer most, after all.

I haven't forgotten, and I already feel sorry for those people. But sadly, it comes with the territory when you support the outright destruction of a nation that rather easily blows your own forces sky-high.

Does it come with the terroritory if you support the outright destruction of a nation that is rather easily blown sky high by your forces, though?

Nope, but IIRC the Israeli's have never advocated that. In fact, IIRC, they're the ones who wanted to settle matters out through negotiations, whereas Hamas/Hizbollah refuse negotiation unless pretty much all their demands are met (which, IIRC, include Israel simply opening itself to whatever form of terrorist attack they desire).

[aldo_14]

Does it come with the terroritory if you support the outright destruction of a nation that is rather easily blown sky high by your forces, though?

Nope, but IIRC the Israeli's have never advocated that. In fact, IIRC, they're the ones who wanted to settle matters out through negotiations, whereas Hamas/Hizbollah refuse negotiation unless pretty much all their demands are met (which, IIRC, include Israel simply opening itself to whatever form of terrorist attack they desire).

(well, quite a few people are effectively advocating that here)

But neither Hamas nor Hizbollah 'are' the Pa or Lebanon (respectively); even in the former case, Hamas themselves do more beyond the reprehensible act of civillian murder, and we can't (fairly) assume that a vote for them necessarily equates with giving a carte blanche to go out and blow **** up.  In both cases, unfortunately, IMO neither (Israel nor the Palestinians) are willing to go far enough in compromise; but it's important to also note, I think, that the Palestinians would by far have the moral high ground (as an occupied 'nation' with a disparate culture and a reasonable claim to self determination as well as UN rulings supporting their case) were it not for the sad history of these mad bastards like Hamas using it as an excuse to commit some of the worst conceivable crimes.

I'm a great believer that, if the Palestinians really want to make a point, they should just go out there en masse, placards et al, and sit down in the road.  violence achieves nothing.

I would not blame this (total, historical, political) situation wholly on any side,  because of the cyclical history of this conflict, and the ultimate truth that you can always find someone to blame for x or y if you go back far enough.  I actually admire that Israel will go to these incredible lengths to recover their people, but I also deplore them doing so because the inevitable consequence will just be more innocent people dead, and more of an excuse for terrorists to justify their actions.

To be honest, I don't have any hope in a peaceful solution any more.  I don't think either side is capable of it now, and it makes me sad.  I can just see this perpetual conflict of violence, death, bombings, and the odd war, with the only forseeable end being someone wiping out the other in an orgy of violence.

[Jetmech Jr.]

(well, quite a few people are effectively advocating that here)

I don't. I'm just sick of the waiting. War is, as far as I can see, inevitable, and I'm tired of all this 'lets negotiate,' 'Lets not *Boom*,' 'Bigger *Boom* right back,' etc etc crap. Right now, I support the Israeli's mainly due to the fact that they aren't headed by an elected terrorist organization like Hamas, and at least have TRIED to spur peaceful negotiation, whereas the Arab leaders...refuse to even consider such a course until they've already recieved the concession they want.

[aldo_14]

(well, quite a few people are effectively advocating that here)

I don't. I'm just sick of the waiting. War is, as far as I can see, inevitable, and I'm tired of all this 'lets negotiate,' 'Lets not *Boom*,' 'Bigger *Boom* right back,' etc etc crap. Right now, I support the Israeli's mainly due to the fact that they aren't headed by an elected terrorist organization like Hamas, and at least have TRIED to spur peaceful negotiation, whereas the Arab leaders...refuse to even consider such a course until they've already recieved the concession they want.

But surely you'd recognise any war short of genocide would just result in us reaching this same position 5, 10 whatever years down the line?

[Jetmech Jr.]

It's more like the need to see something different. That the situation will be no better off is secondary, really, though I suppose one could always hold out hope that the Extremists would realize that they should just sit the **** down or something.

[aldo_14]

It's more like the need to see something different. That the situation will be no better off is secondary, really, though I suppose one could always hold out hope that the Extremists would realize that they should just sit the **** down or something.

The thing is, we've seen all this before........

[Jetmech Jr.]

It's more like the need to see something different. That the situation will be no better off is secondary, really, though I suppose one could always hold out hope that the Extremists would realize that they should just sit the **** down or something.

The thing is, we've seen all this before........

It's like watching a slowly escalating sissy-slap fight. Eventually you just want them to beat the snot out of each other and get it over with, or just stop altogether. Here, it's looking to be the former.

[Jetmech Jr.]

Well, we're up to blockading. Looks like it's gonna be War.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5175160.stm

[NGTM-1R]

ngtm1r: Do you remember which administration sold Egypt the M1's? No sarcasm or anything here; I'm asking a serious question.

They've had them since around '97, so it'd have to be Clinton's. Also a nice collection of F-16s too, maybe other stuff I've forgotten. Egypt's military started looking very Western after the First Gulf War. A lot of Middle Eastern folks did the same thing at the time, since we went and proved that the M1 would mop the floor with the T-72. Their training remains a mockery compared to that of the Israelis, and they haven't really moved away from Soviet-style tactics either, but on purely technical grounds Egypt is probably only three-five years behind Israel.

[IceFire]

Wouldn't the Merkava wipe the floor with a M1?  The M1 is a good tank but the Merkava is uncompromised as a main battle tank.  The disadvantage is that it weighs far more than the M1...the M1 is meant to be mobile enough to be moved into the theater required.  The Merkava has no such requirement.

[Sandwich]

The Merkava Mk. IV is the world's best desert combat tank, period. It has targeting systems that are so advanced that (the specifics of range and speed I forget) it can accurately fire its main cannon while in motion, can shoot down helicopters with it's main cannon, and can achieve headshots using its parallel-mounted 0.5 Browning from ~2km away (IIRC). It can transport 6 soldiers with full combat gear in the rear, with the signiature rear in/egress hatch, or 2 (or was it 4?) wounded soldiers on stretchers. The armor system is still top-secret stuff, reactive/explosive paneling that can withstand certain types of AP rockets.

Anyway, I'll stop ranting. An update: I speak to my brother every few hours; he's at a base about a 20 minute drive inland from Naharyia (the northern coastal town that got repeatedly hit by Katyushas, killing one person). Every time I call him I hear booms and bangs in the background. Some, he says, are 150mm mobile artillery, while others are Cobra attack helicopters firing their mounted machine gun (that thing has a slow RoF from what I heard... 4-6 rounds per second I'd estimate). But so far, he's fine, and I haven't been called up either, so... *shrugs*

Oh, yeah. You may or may not have heard about an Israeli tank that was blown up in South Lebanon while searching for the abducted soldiers. My brother said it was blown apart by 500kg of explosives, and that there weren't any pieces larger than his head left.

[IceFire]

So obviously the T-72's that most of the neighboring nations have would be no match for the Merkava.  A group on group probably would result in total destruction of the T-72 platoon with few losses.

Its fortunate that you haven't been called up...hopefully this doesn't get any worse.

[Flipside]

1 israle soldier to 65 pala's. 2 for 2000 pala's, and 3 for around 3500 palas.

I say, go israle! I say 'kill all the palastinions and\or kick them of israles land (gaza strip and the other place. West bank?)'. I say israle, dont take ****, go kick their ass. Give no one of their fukin ases back. Kill all 2000 and ship their heads to them and threaton the laboninites, to give israle their guys back or they will kick majoir ass. Thats how thsi **** should be done.
Israle should take back its birthright land.
This whole arab\muslim thing all hapened cauze israle did a dumbass move and disobeyed god way back when. Now look at the trouble its gettin them into? Constant wars with the group of people they should have wiped out in the first place b4 they became a problem.

~Ephili~

Theres one thing worse than someone who puts no value on human life whatsoever. And that's someone who can't spell putting no value on human life. Does it occur to you, for example, how many Israelis would die in that sort of conflict? But then, you don't care, it's not in your country, so let's get on with the big explosions

Quite frankly, I've had it up to here with fundamentalist assholes trying to start World War Three and then turning round and saying "Look! Rapture! The Bible was Right!', because they are making a self-fulfilling prophecy and are yet too blind to even see what they are doing. It's as bad as the actions of Fred Phelps or Jack Thompson or the like... 'The world isn't revolving around what I want it to be! Waaaaaaah!!'.