[Charismatic]

But, if their goal was capella, why take so godam long to get there? They could have jumped there at any time.

Also, they have, what is it called, inter system jump, where they dont need nodes, jsut a planetary body\gravity to jump.

Their attacks origionate from the right side of the node chart, and capella is on the right. Anyone see what im getting at?

[Dysko]

Yeah but what happens if two sqadrons happen to be flying in the same sortie?

Check the "Look the treason..." mission, when the Skulls come in.

[Charismatic]

Yeah but what happens if two sqadrons happen to be flying in the same sortie?

Check the "Look the treason..." mission, when the Skulls come in.

IIRC its "like the treason' then 'hate the traitor' i think.

[Snail]

Love the treason.

[TrashMan]

Good point ngtm1r.

In conclusion, the only way the GTVA can win is if they allow duplicate callsigns. Although everything would be unorganized, their fighters would all be invincible!

Command: "Alpha1, destroy the shivans fleet!"
Alpha One(s): (Thousands of voices respond in chourus) "Yes Sir!"

*We see thousands upon thousands of fighters and bombers flying with unmatched skill wiping the shivans from the Galaxy...FOREVER!*

[S-99]

Well, if it was the shivans way of destroying some kind of plague we didn't know we had from subspace or something. I'd just say **** it, we can't prove it, lets just do what we do best while the shivans will be doing what the suck at compared to  us, and that is exactly being the ****tzorz
One thing noticable about fs1 and fs2 is the shivans moving from bigger thing to bigger thing. Glassing a planet isn't good enough, hell they don't even blow up ****ing planets, then they move onto blowing stars. What would they be able to move onto next?

[IceFire]

But, if their goal was capella, why take so godam long to get there? They could have jumped there at any time.

Also, they have, what is it called, inter system jump, where they dont need nodes, jsut a planetary body\gravity to jump.

Their attacks origionate from the right side of the node chart, and capella is on the right. Anyone see what im getting at?

Charismatic...man...when you press Alt-J. Thats an intra system jump.  Everyone has that ability.  Inter system jumps are done via the jump nodes.  The Shivans have to use them just like everyone else.

Inter (between)
Intra (inside)

The inter system jumps require the stability of a node between star systems to work.  The Intra system jumps are done within the gravity well of a star.  Based on the information provided I can only guess that this type of subspace travel is limited to the confines of a solar system...probably right to the edge where there are planetoids and whatnot but not much further.  Not out in the interstellar winds as I imagine there isn't enough of a well to use.

[IceFire]

Well, if it was the shivans way of destroying some kind of plague we didn't know we had from subspace or something. I'd just say **** it, we can't prove it, lets just do what we do best while the shivans will be doing what the suck at compared to  us, and that is exactly being the ****tzorz
One thing noticable about fs1 and fs2 is the shivans moving from bigger thing to bigger thing. Glassing a planet isn't good enough, hell they don't even blow up ****ing planets, then they move onto blowing stars. What would they be able to move onto next?

The next option is the whole galaxy but I doubt we'd go there because thats just too fantastical.  Honestly...blowing up a star has been done before in sci-fi...but a galaxy is too much.  I think the plague thing is sort of unfounded since its not mentioned anywhere.  I prefer to think that there are clues in the FS1 and 2 story that can tell us hypothetically about what could happen next.  Reasonably speaking.

DaveB did say something about ships so large they would affect the gameplay like a planetary surface. So I'm sure in the back of their minds at Volition that they wanted to up the ante in terms of size of a ship.  But the bread and butter is always going to be on the destroyer sized and down and thats why I never really liked the MOD community always going for the biggest, longest, most powerful ship ever.  I'm sure we all know why....a small powerhouse of a destroyer always made more sense from the GTVA perspective.  The Shivans already had that with the Ravana.

[General Battuta]

You could blow up the whole galaxy.  Just ram enough neutron stars together and you'd get a burst that would spread through the whole galactic structure, cauterizing all life.  The radiation wavefront would take forever to spread everywhere, though, and you'd need a lot of neutron stars to ensure the blast was large enough.

The Shivans could manage it, though.  If you can blow up a star (they might've used the star-singer method proposed by Alastair Reynolds, the description given in the late Capella command briefings fits), they can certainly move a neutron star. 

[Snail]

Well, if it was the shivans way of destroying some kind of plague we didn't know we had from subspace or something. I'd just say **** it, we can't prove it, lets just do what we do best while the shivans will be doing what the suck at compared to  us, and that is exactly being the ****tzorz
One thing noticable about fs1 and fs2 is the shivans moving from bigger thing to bigger thing. Glassing a planet isn't good enough, hell they don't even blow up ****ing planets, then they move onto blowing stars. What would they be able to move onto next?

The next option is the whole galaxy but I doubt we'd go there because thats just too fantastical.  Honestly...blowing up a star has been done before in sci-fi...but a galaxy is too much.  I think the plague thing is sort of unfounded since its not mentioned anywhere.  I prefer to think that there are clues in the FS1 and 2 story that can tell us hypothetically about what could happen next.  Reasonably speaking.

DaveB did say something about ships so large they would affect the gameplay like a planetary surface. So I'm sure in the back of their minds at Volition that they wanted to up the ante in terms of size of a ship.  But the bread and butter is always going to be on the destroyer sized and down and thats why I never really liked the MOD community always going for the biggest, longest, most powerful ship ever.  I'm sure we all know why....a small powerhouse of a destroyer always made more sense from the GTVA perspective.  The Shivans already had that with the Ravana.

I like Shivan ships being huge, but I don't like having Terran ships being so large. It gets ludicrous. Such as the Icanus.

[AlphaOne]

Well first of all the chances of the shivans actualy knowing that Sol actualy survived the Lucifer are near 0. They could of just imagined that since they ran into these "ants" who aprea to opose them ad in fact actualy beat them in several battles, that they were some sort of new speies powerfull enough to fight them. And with Bosch spreading confusion amongst them about what to actualy believe about the GTVA who knows maibe they said "hey look they are good children sure they make mistakes but they are good children and have shown they can play toghtether nice.....most of the time...!"

And then decided to make a show of force to make sure they do not have another war in this corner of the galaxi.

Or they could of been so freaked out about the Collie crushing...sort of...one of they juggs that they decided to actualy seal themselves from the GTVA.

Remember that up to the whole jugg fleet aprearing the GTVA was kinda beating back the shivans. Sure they lost a lot more then the shivans in terms of cap ships initialy but then again this could of shown the shivans that the GTVA is equaly stronger if not stronger then they were.
Maibe they believed themselfs the only species capable of building such juggs and when the GTVA stood up to they chalenge they figured the GTVA has some 80 + collies ling around on a defensive line.

But these are all speculations.

Another one would be that Bosch actualy managed to get them to leave the GTVA alone but the shivans decided to teach the GTVA a lesson in terms of theyr power and place in the galaxi.

[Snail]

You're paralleling the Shivan manifesto there.

[aldo_14]

Well first of all the chances of the shivans actualy knowing that Sol actualy survived the Lucifer are near 0. They could of just imagined that since they ran into these "ants" who aprea to opose them ad in fact actualy beat them in several battles, that they were some sort of new speies powerfull enough to fight them. And with Bosch spreading confusion amongst them about what to actualy believe about the GTVA who knows maibe they said "hey look they are good children sure they make mistakes but they are good children and have shown they can play toghtether nice.....most of the time...!"

And then decided to make a show of force to make sure they do not have another war in this corner of the galaxi.

Or they could of been so freaked out about the Collie crushing...sort of...one of they juggs that they decided to actualy seal themselves from the GTVA.

Remember that up to the whole jugg fleet aprearing the GTVA was kinda beating back the shivans. Sure they lost a lot more then the shivans in terms of cap ships initialy but then again this could of shown the shivans that the GTVA is equaly stronger if not stronger then they were.
Maibe they believed themselfs the only species capable of building such juggs and when the GTVA stood up to they chalenge they figured the GTVA has some 80 + collies ling around on a defensive line.

But these are all speculations.

Another one would be that Bosch actualy managed to get them to leave the GTVA alone but the shivans decided to teach the GTVA a lesson in terms of theyr power and place in the galaxi.

The Shivans aren't idiots; they've seen the level of GTVA tech, they know how long humanity and the Vasudans have been hanging around, and they can pretty easily guess that there aren't 80 Colossi or they would have been deployed well before the Knossos was destroyed, let alone Capella began being evacuated.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the Shivans used - sacrificed - that first Sathanas to scout Terran defenses, identify tactics against them, and determine the reaction to an incursion.

[Charismatic]

The Shivans aren't idiots; they've seen the level of GTVA tech, they know how long humanity and the Vasudans have been hanging around, and they can pretty easily guess that there aren't 80 Colossi or they would have been deployed well before the Knossos was destroyed, let alone Capella began being evacuated.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the Shivans used - sacrificed - that first Sathanas to scout Terran defenses, identify tactics against them, and determine the reaction to an incursion.

Reaction being, "AHH WERE ALL GONA DIE!! SHOOT THE SHIVANS, FIGHT TO DEATH" and start kamakazing?
The shivans know our tech, and they  have been all throughout our teritory, they know what we have and dont have.
For instance, we stold Shield tech form them, we didnt have it untill we ripped it from their ships. They massacured us at first. If we were not forced to create a shield, we would not have for a while yet.

The Collie showed we would stand up to them. Yet they knew they could take us. We are (GTVA, Terrans\Vasudans respectivly) probably the first to make a stand. The Ancients didnt even get this far, yet they were WAY ahead of us.
It is amazing to know the Ancients ruled so many galixies, yet we found close to no tech from them. I bet FS_ will also be finding some Ancient tech or info.

Aldo, Did not the shivans already know our tactics? We havent changed. Only different thing is the 'close the door' poloicy. See a shivan, blow up the node.

Well first of all the chances of the shivans actualy knowing that Sol actualy survived the Lucifer are near 0. They could of just imagined that since they ran into these "ants" who aprea to opose them ad in fact actualy beat them in several battles, that they were some sort of new speies powerfull enough to fight them. And with Bosch spreading confusion amongst them about what to actualy believe about the GTVA who knows maibe they said "hey look they are good children sure they make mistakes but they are good children and have shown they can play toghtether nice.....most of the time...!"

Two main points.

First, the Shivans knew they did not take down our HW. If we assume the Lucy took out all of the ancients worlds, the Shivan Command would assume it would take out all our worlds. We were alive in FS2. They knew the Lucy failed to destroy us. --maby it was a test? and thats why they ignored us in FS2--
If they thoght the lucy suceeded its mission to destory sol, it would have continued to kill all our planets, we could not even damange that ship! But we found out how, killed it off, and lived to piss off the shivans again.

Capella had something to do with Bosch....not having enough beer on hand.
EDIT: Hmm forgot main point two. It might ahve been the bosh thing. He did or said something.. they could have jsut as easily jumped into GTVA space to finish us off, but they seemingly left somewhere else.
FS_ or FS4, Bosch will return with info.

Charismatic...man...when you press Alt-J. Thats an intra system jump.  Everyone has that ability.  Inter system jumps are done via the jump nodes.  The Shivans have to use them just like everyone else.
*Snip*

I did say i probably got the term wrong. My point was i think i heard a while back that Shivans could jump without nodes, but using planetary bodies. Something we cannot even do.

[KappaWing]

Good point ngtm1r.

In conclusion, the only way the GTVA can win is if they allow duplicate callsigns. Although everything would be unorganized, their fighters would all be invincible!

Command: "Alpha1, destroy the shivans fleet!"
Alpha One(s): (Thousands of voices respond in chourus) "Yes Sir!"

*We see thousands upon thousands of fighters and bombers flying with unmatched skill wiping the shivans from the Galaxy...FOREVER!*

This was probably the way Derek Smart planned to end it.

[Javito1986]

I'd just like to point out that we actually -don't- know how well the Ancients held up against the Shivans and it's actually rather baseless to say the GTVA is the first to make a stand. I doubt that quite a bit. I'm sure the Ancients didn't take it lying down, they probably resisted just as ferociously as the GTVA and there's no way of knowing how long it took to wipe them out. Given the sheer size of their empire though I would estimate at least three generations.

Anyway, yes the GTVA did successfully force the Shivans to retreat in '35. Or was the armada destroyed? Meh, either way the Shivans were for all intents and purposes defeated in FS1. I still maintain that the GTVA was -soundly- defeated by the main Shivan fleet in FS2 however. Just because their plan to detonate the jump nodes with meson warheads worked doesn't mean they won. The battle of Capella was a -decisive- Shivan victory and Capella was a major Terran political, social, and economic center. The GTVA's only success was in preventing the Shivan fleet from advancing beyond Capella but that doesn't mean they won by any means. A "win" would have been repelling the Shivan fleet from Capella. In any case, it's beyond unlikely that destroying the jump nodes is anything more than a temporary solution and they know it.

Their only real chance is to fortify their systems, build up their militaries, restore contact with Earth... and even then, given the unimaginable size and disposition of the Shivan armada, of which we only saw a fraction of in the Capellan battle, I personally don't think their next encounter with the Shivans will end in any other way but -another- evacuation of yet -another- star system. And so on and so forth until they have nowhere else to run. That's how I presume the Ancients were conquered, little by little, and barring some cliche last minute disease which only infects Shivans that's the only real future I see for the GTVA.

But I still think that it would take a few hundred years for the Shivans to wipe them out completely so it's not -all- pessemistic. But you guys gotta admit, FS2's ending wasn't actually a jubilant one. This is a grim storyline :-P.

[IceFire]

Charismatic...man...when you press Alt-J. Thats an intra system jump.  Everyone has that ability.  Inter system jumps are done via the jump nodes.  The Shivans have to use them just like everyone else.
*Snip*

I did say i probably got the term wrong. My point was i think i heard a while back that Shivans could jump without nodes, but using planetary bodies. Something we cannot even do.

Not in any official game fiction canon anywhere that I could ever find.  Maybe a raving fan but I don't think that the inter-system jumps without a node is something that we even want to consider because I think its outside the realm of possibility that is set into the fiction of the game universe.  Granted its a game and fiction but I hope you know what I mean.

The semi-paraphrased quote you have there is in relation to all intra system jumps which is common to the extreme.

[fsi.scsi]

A lot of campaigns reference jumps within the same system, which "require the presence of a strong gravitational field."  Maybe that is where that hypothesis came from.

Nodeless travel was one of the key plot elements of Sync.

[TrashMan]

The Shivans aren't idiots; they've seen the level of GTVA tech, they know how long humanity and the Vasudans have been hanging around, and they can pretty easily guess that there aren't 80 Colossi or they would have been deployed well before the Knossos was destroyed, let alone Capella began being evacuated.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the Shivans used - sacrificed - that first Sathanas to scout Terran defenses, identify tactics against them, and determine the reaction to an incursion.

Shivans know squat!
They never studied or scanned anything of ours, not even scanning a ship.
The only thing they wish to learn is can they destroy the idiot trying to communicate with them in less than 0,5 seconds.
I'd say we are as much a mistery to them as they are to us.
Kidnaping Bosch was a presedan in their behaviour, so maby they did finally get interested into learning more.

[Vasudan Commander]

[/quote]

Shivans know squat!
They never studied or scanned anything of ours, not even scanning a ship.
The only thing they wish to learn is can they destroy the idiot trying to communicate with them in less than 0,5 seconds.
I'd say we are as much a mistery to them as they are to us.
Kidnaping Bosch was a presedan in their behaviour, so maby they did finally get interested into learning more.
[/quote]

Just as a tree falling in the middle of a lifeless forest makes no sound, those who were taken by the shivans never escaped to tell the tale. So if they WERE making scans or learning about vasudans or terrans, they most likely  captured entire wings that were never heard from again, and presumed KIA.