[FreeSpaceFreak]

Well, they are known to be merely a symptom of a bigger problem... Open to interpretation.

@Snail: Shut up

[Fenrir]

Yeah, but I`d imagine there are ways for them to be part of a bigger problem without being merely pawns to it.

While "I don`t mind being a pawn if the game makes sense," I do mind the shivans being so.

[kalnaren]

Good statements, all four of them

Additionally, bombers (even Medusas) are sortied quite often to help with dogfights during the Great War. Yes, that's mostly in red alert missions, but what the hell.

The talk of phantom ships... Well, they knew Ross 128 was attacked, didn't they? They wouldn't be so sure if nobody explicitly told them, so I do think there were survivors. Before they were imprisoned (or so) by the GTI, they told their story to 'normal' GTA pilots, who started the talk. Anyway, I haven't played ST, so I'm only guessing at this point.

Welcome again and enjoy your stay!

Thanks for the welcome.

That's probably more likely to have been the origin of the phantom ships. That, and possibly, leaks from within the GTI itself (a husband to a wife over dinner, a wife to her girlfriends at a Tupperware party, that wife to her husband, that husband to his buddies in the fleet... of course by which time the "phantoms" likely went from being a "possible unidentified ship" to "flying zombies with laser beam eyes"..... or monsters that lurk in subspace and eat unwary patrols for lunch.).

2) The idea that the Shivans are like the "monsters at the edge of the map." The fact that they seem to defy logic and reason is what makes them such great enemies. While we can outsmart them tactically, we can`t figure them out.

I have to say out of all the replies in here, I also find this idea the most appealing (Gestalt's post on page 2 kindof idea). Though I do like to think there is some greater motivation for them.

[Fenrir]

Of course there`s some greater motivation for them. The developers stated that much.

I guess I`m just a sucker for mysterious enemies, as I like the Sync and Transcend campaigns for that same reason.

[Akalabeth Angel]

My theory is that the shivans don't like us.

[Droid803]

My theory is that the shivans don't like us.

[Snail]

My theory is that the shivans don't like us.

This very simple and despicable theory does not explain any of the following questions:

Why the Shivans did not send in reinforcements until 30 years after the Lucifer's death.
Why the Shivans OMGWTFBBQSALAD'd up Capella.
Why the Shivans in FS1 did not have beams while the ones in FS2 did (among other differences).
What the Shivan Comm Nodes were.
How the Shivans got such a big fleet.
Why the Shivans only attacked subspace nodes, except for Earth, Deneb and Vasuda.
How the Shivans are the "Great Preservers".
The Origins of the Shivans

However, MY THEORY answers all these questions, AND MORE, including, but not limited to:

Why some nodes which appeared in FS1 didn't appear in FS2.
Why there were more than 1 node to Sol but all were destroyed by the Lucifer.
Why the Shivans have flak!
Explains Petrarch's "Shivans are exiles" comment.

Read it and be enlightened.

[kalnaren]

Not a bad theory, it does explain everything... it assumes an awful lot though. But then again, I guess any complete Shivan theory does 

[SPARTAN-367]

I wonder what the second Knosses Portal in the Nebula led too... Remember that?

[jr2]

Yippee, someone who still gives welcome speeches! I didn't dare to at first, but now I'll post a link to jr2's welcome speeches^TM

Added that welcome speech. 

[Rodo]

Seriously... that theory is good.. shivans dont like us...or the basudan either!!

maybe we should just ask the ancients what shall we do to be friends with shivans..
ohh ****... that's right they didnt like them either..

well guess shivans just dont like anithing else but shivans

[Fenrir]

Nah, I`ve decided that this theory is the best!!1!
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,450.msg8214.html#msg8214

[SPARTAN-367]

Nah, I`ve decided that this theory is the best!!1!
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,450.msg8214.html#msg8214

ahahaha

[Akalabeth Angel]

My theory is that the shivans don't like us.

This very simple and despicable theory does not explain any of the following questions:

<SNIP>

Read it and be enlightened.

           Yeah, but it doesn't explain how the Shivans are "a symptom of a greater problem". One of the few secret snippets Volition left out.


           I also don't buy the Lucifer bit. You say

 ", meaning that the loss of contact with the Hivemind put a halt to Shivan innovation

 and then later say

 The Lucifer fleet was a very small fleet with only a handful of destroyers at their disposal. For this reason, they took extra measures to protect their flagship, the SD Lucifer. These measures included implementing a powerful shielding system onto the superdestroyer, as well as unique Flux Cannon weapons. The reason the entire fleet was void of the beam cannons seen on the later Shivan ships is because they had never been developed. Because all of the Shivans were separated for tens of thousands of years, each developed in their own unique direction..

  So, loss with the hivemind halts innovation. Yet, everyone still innovated on their own seperately? I don't get it. If there's a hivemind, logically everything is equal. Roughly. And if they're seperated, they stay equal, at least in your theory. So why have they evolved over time? Or you say that sometimes, the Shivans stole and adapted technology instead. But, the Shivans never showed any sign of caring to capture anything. They just blow everything they see to bits. So who did they steal this tech from? And where did they refit their ships? We've never seen a Shivan base, just some satellite broadcasting the latest videos of some Shivan getting mad after his game of Unreal wouldn't start, and another Shivan singing the Rick Roll song.

          And I don't buy the Great War theory either. An advanced species doesn't act on instinct alone, or else they wouldn't be advanced in the first place. They have a mandate, as the Great Preservers. Instinct is for self-preservation, not for the preservation of others. Instinct is fight or flight, not . . .go out and hunt down some weakass humans. Or maybe the humans got too close to the Shivan nest. And all the Shivan mommies came out to lay down some smack to preserve their young!
 
          And the GTI, wasn't really a major factor in the Great War story. They were only introduced as a rogue element in Silent Threat as far as I can remember. And I don't get why everyone goes so crazy about the GTI or the SOC. I mean, whatever. Just some more rebels to kill. They're not the centrepoint or driving force of the story.

[S-99]

* FSF watches the intro again

Nah, the guy looks & sounds really scared, and pilots aren't known for their acting skills

I never said he was acting. I just said he had a freakish detail of shivan ships.

The pilot makes the flat statement that "we were in a skirmish with a Vasudan patrol, and they just came out of nowhere." Considering this pilot is scared ****less I find it hard to believe this is all acting.

Good point with the vasudan skirmish pointing out, i did say earlier that this fun theory had holes. I was just still talking about it because canon or not it fits the thread and is a great what if theory. Also i forgot about the vasudan skirmish part.

On the other side of all of this. When did i say the pilot was acting scared? All i said was that he had a freakish detail of shivans ships. This does not mean: S-99 = saying he was acting.

And yeah gti aren't really a big factor in the great war at all. Near the end of the great war they were. They definitely were the most knowledgable of shivans though. Was bosch a pilot for gti back then? I don't remember if he was or not. The only thing that's up with gti was the whole situation that happened in silent threat which really carries on in big ways in fs2 well after gti got all ****ed up. Stuff like bosch getting old gti defunct records on the shivans and the etak device derived from that old gti research.

[Akalabeth Angel]

On the other side of all of this. When did i say the pilot was acting scared? All i said was that he had a freakish detail of shivans ships. This does not mean: S-99 = saying he was acting.

     Eh, "freakish detail?" like . . ."death black ships, their weapons were too much for us". That's not really a lot of detail. He's reliving the moment as he's recounting the battle but that just means he saw what he was fighting, not that he could draw a schematic when he got back to base. Basically all he says is "they look scary and they kicked our ass".



     The  biggest problem I have with that theory (aside from the fact it completely contradicts everything the pilot says and does), is that, it implies the GTA is in control. Freespace 1 versus the Shivans is basically one long desperate struggle to survive. The Shivans come out of nowhere, kick the crap out of everyone, nuke the Galatea, lay waste to the Vasudans, and then barely, just barely, the fragile alliance manages to bring them down on the very doorstep of Earth. If the GTA or GTI or whoever the heck is instigating the whole thing, then it loses all the mystery.

    And personally, the whole view that the GTI or the SOC is the freespace equivalent of the Illuminati always bugs the heck out of me. And why people have fallen in love with the GTI when Silent Threat is just one crappy mission after another is beyond me. Oh look, there are 3-4 Atens, go kill them! Don't know why I'm killing them, just apparently I don't like Vasudans at the moment. Or Oh look, the Hades. It's just going to sit there while I hide in the trench shooting for 20 minutes, while battling off an endless supply of Lokis. Is it over yet? Please say yes.

[Stormkeeper]

There was always something nagging me about the Ancients. I seem to recall them saying, "when we encountered them". As I recall, weren't the Ancients the ones who were busy conquering the world. Doesn't that mean that "when [the Ancients] encountered them", weren't the Ancients on the offensive?

[FreeSpaceFreak]

Yes, they were on the offensive. "We attacked them, as we had done with everyone else..."

[kalnaren]

Problem with the ancients is that we really have no idea what the extent of their empire was. Assuming that they did build the portals, their empire clearly expanded far beyond the GTVA; remember the second portal in the binary system after the nebula? Who knows where that one went. Perhaps they encounted the Shivans through there.

I also really dislike the theories that make the Shivans out to be a bunch of separate fleets trying to reach eachother. They seem to act to singularly for that, especially in FS1. IF they have a limited small fleet and they're trying to protect their destroyer (Lucifer), why would they ever go on the offensive against an enemy that doesn't know they exist? I have trouble believing the Shivans are retarded animals driven purely by instinct.

[Stormkeeper]

Actually, given the Ancient monologue, it seemed to me that the Ancients made a major boo boo in attacking the Shivans. Its possible that the Ancients touched a nerve with the Shivans, and they retaliated. And then the Shivans became xenophobic, and begen annihilating every race they encountered.

For all you know, the Ancients razed the Shivan homeworld as an example; which would explain why the Shivans targeted the Vasudan homeworld exclusively.