[KappaWing]

Yes they CAN reproduce, of course they are fertile, but they would not reproduce of their own volition, such as in a neutral society, meaning that they would not reproduce in natural circumstances. On another example, Left handers can be forced to use their right hand, they just suck at it. Does that make them right handed?

[Ghostavo]

No, but it doesn't stop them from using their right hand to write.

But according to your reasoning, that does make them somewhat illiterate since they cannot write with their natural hand...

[KappaWing]

Its 11:20 here, cut me some slack. 

Really, you're probably right.

[S-99]

I am left handed. So, i guess i'm on God's left side And i'm evil as ****, and i should be exorcised Everyone is right, leftees are evil You never know what i'll do next since my evil leftist dyslexic insight makes me do this and this.

Anyway this is starting to resemble that other thread where the topic was homosexuality and discussing whether or not it's gene and why it happens. One thing i need to do is some research on the gay pride flag, minority, group, etc. And try to figure out why some consider it indecent, because idk **** about the gay pride group.

[Mefustae]

...because idk **** about the gay pride group.

It's usually just a case of "I don't care that these people are gay, i'd just rather not know they're gay". Homophobia wearing a bad disguise, IMO.

[Ghostavo]

Its 11:20 here, cut me some slack. 

Really, you're probably right.

It's probably not even genetic (at least fully) anyway. Societies pressures are part of the human condition now so one can't say behaviors caused by society are "unnatural".

[TrashMan]

What makes a civillian Hummer (or any all-terran-veichle) ? It's recognizeble front mask, their 4 wheel drive, the big size.
Color? Nope, as it is within factory prameters. Air bag,s no air-bags, lether seats, padde,d or something else.. optional internal gear, different colors or dozens of add-ons. All those things are within factory paramaters, and even tough two veichels that roll off the assembly line can differ, they all have the same basic properties that make them what they are.
So when a car rolls out with a 2 wheel drive insted of 4? Well, that a factory defect. It's still a nice car and it will still work well. You can drive it around town and carry stuff just like in a 100% factory approved one. But what happens when you take it off-road for some wilderness exploring? You'll run into problem without a 4 wheel drive..probably get stuck. You'll needed someones help to get you out of  sitch. Ironicly, this is what a ATV primary function should be all about.

It's similar with homosexuality. The primary function (reproduction) can't really be done without outside help..a gay couple can't have kids by their own. If you consider the primary function to be the spreading of your genes/DNA, it gets even worse - as that cannot happen with a gay couple. there's no combination of their genes.

I realise that calling it a defect or sickness doesn't sound good. NO ONE would like to be called sick or defective. No ne wants to be reminded or somehow seculded...pointed at. (even if it's true...think about it..if you had AIDS or a mental disabiltiy or anything else for that matter...would you like people pointing that out to you?) ..It pulls out many negative images with it.

Call it whatever you want but it's not normal. It is a defect, but luckily, one of the lesser ones, as you can still function within society without any real problems.

[Ghostavo]

What makes a civillian Hummer (or any all-terran-veichle) ? It's recognizeble front mask, their 4 wheel drive, the big size.
Color? Nope, as it is within factory prameters. Air bag,s no air-bags, lether seats, padde,d or something else.. optional internal gear, different colors or dozens of add-ons. All those things are within factory paramaters, and even tough two veichels that roll off the assembly line can differ, they all have the same basic properties that make them what they are.
So when a car rolls out with a 2 wheel drive insted of 4? Well, that a factory defect. It's still a nice car and it will still work well. You can drive it around town and carry stuff just like in a 100% factory approved one. But what happens when you take it off-road for some wilderness exploring? You'll run into problem without a 4 wheel drive..probably get stuck. You'll needed someones help to get you out of  sitch. Ironicly, this is what a ATV primary function should be all about.

It's similar with homosexuality. The primary function (reproduction) can't really be done without outside help..a gay couple can't have kids by their own. If you consider the primary function to be the spreading of your genes/DNA, it gets even worse - as that cannot happen with a gay couple. there's no combination of their genes.

I realise that calling it a defect or sickness doesn't sound good. NO ONE would like to be called sick or defective. No ne wants to be reminded or somehow seculded...pointed at. (even if it's true...think about it..if you had AIDS or a mental disabiltiy or anything else for that matter...would you like people pointing that out to you?) ..It pulls out many negative images with it.

Call it whatever you want but it's not normal. It is a defect, but luckily, one of the lesser ones, as you can still function within society without any real problems.

Sex is much more than reproduction. What happens when a homosexual individual really wants to reproduce? 
As I said before, they are not impotent.

What I love about this is the "without outside help" phenomenon everyone seems to talk about is that you back yourself into a corner. Very well, explain why a sizable population is gay knowing that the genes for it (if it is genetic) would have to have been part of the human genome for thousands of years. If it hadn't been part of the human genome for thousands of years it would mean that homosexuals reproduce is at an even more accelerated rate. If it is, then explain why it persisted without society's pressure or why the percentage is not explained by just carriers.

[TrashMan]

Sizable population? Who counted? Where's the numbers? Were they double (nay, tripple) checked?


And who ever said that it's passed on from generation to generation? It probably just that some people are more likely to have offspring that end up gay. Or maby the chance is more or less equal? Hard to tell... regardless, just as as errors ALLWAYS happen on a assembly line within a certain percentage, it's likely they happen too within the DNA and the humman genome. Some errors are more frequent than others..nothing strange about that.

Oh, and you seem to miss the main point. Purpose of reproduction is to carry over your genetic material. To mix it with your significant other.
The child inherits something from both parents..that doesn't really happen with homosexuals.. they have to look for a third party.

[Ghostavo]

Sizable population? Who counted? Where's the numbers? Were they double (nay, tripple) checked?


And who ever said that it's passed on from generation to generation? It probably just that some people are more likely to have offspring that end up gay. Or maby the chance is more or less equal? Hard to tell... regardless, just as as errors ALLWAYS happen on a assembly line within a certain percentage, it's likely they happen too within the DNA and the humman genome. Some errors are more frequent than others..nothing strange about that.

Oh, and you seem to miss the main point. Purpose of reproduction is to carry over your genetic material. To mix it with your significant other.
The child inherits something from both parents..that doesn't really happen with homosexuals.. they have to look for a third party.

If it's not passed on from generation to generation it's obviously not genetic. Also, errors don't occur in one every ten times.

You are also missing the point. Homosexuals aren't impotent. And if a significant number of them reproduce as evidenced by their numbers, they... well... reproduce! You seem to be locked in using a monogamic heterosexual couple as the "natural" thing, when it can range to poligamic and homosexual.

Also, ancient greece didn't seem to have problems increasing their population.

[TrashMan]

I'm sorry? Did  Itype it wrong?...erm..nope.. then your browser must be bugged...well, either that or you dont' pay any attention to what I'm writing.

[KappaWing]

--snip--

Oh, and you seem to miss the main point. Purpose of reproduction is to carry over your genetic material. To mix it with your significant other.
The child inherits something from both parents..that doesn't really happen with homosexuals.. they have to look for a third party.

Actually, now they have this new technology now where they can copy the DNA from one sperm to a blank egg and mate it with another sperm, effectively allowing homosexuals to have kids of their own.

I'm not sure if they have a similar thing going for lesbians but its probably already here or not too far off.

EDIT:

It's probably not even genetic (at least fully) anyway. Societies pressures are part of the human condition now so one can't say behaviors caused by society are "unnatural".

THIS is where we disagreed, by your labeling society's influence natural and me saying its not.

[Wobble73]

--snip--

Actually, now they have this new technology now where they can copy the DNA from one sperm to a blank egg and mate it with another sperm, effectively allowing homosexuals to have kids of their own.

I'm not sure if they have a similar thing going for lesbians but its probably already here or not too far off.

Uh-oh! Double y chromosomes coming up! Aliens 3 anyone?

[TrashMan]

Actually, now they have this new technology now where they can copy the DNA from one sperm to a blank egg and mate it with another sperm, effectively allowing homosexuals to have kids of their own.

I'm not sure if they have a similar thing going for lesbians but its probably already here or not too far off.

Experimental...dangerous...not used ATM...and again, as I said - requires assistance from a third party.

It's probably not even genetic (at least fully) anyway. Societies pressures are part of the human condition now so one can't say behaviors caused by society are "unnatural".

THIS is where we disagreed, by your labeling society's influence natural and me saying its not.

[/quote]

Cultural influence? Highly unlikely.. How would you explain kids growing up in vastly different families end up homosexual? Sexual attraction is not a learend behavioour...it instinctive...primal.

[Ghostavo]

I'm sorry? Did  Itype it wrong?...erm..nope.. then your browser must be bugged...well, either that or you dont' pay any attention to what I'm writing.

I'm still waiting for you to answer my question of explaining the sizable portion of homosexuals in the population.

http://www.plu.sg/main/facts_05.htm

Figures range from 1% to a stagering 20%.

"I'm sorry, is this too much for you to answer? Or is your browser bugged?" 

EDIT:

It's probably not even genetic (at least fully) anyway. Societies pressures are part of the human condition now so one can't say behaviors caused by society are "unnatural".

THIS is where we disagreed, by your labeling society's influence natural and me saying its not.

Then everything we do is "unnatural". You go to school? Unnatural. You use computers? Unnatural. And so on. The very language you speak and how you think also due to society's influence on you.

--snip--

Actually, now they have this new technology now where they can copy the DNA from one sperm to a blank egg and mate it with another sperm, effectively allowing homosexuals to have kids of their own.

I'm not sure if they have a similar thing going for lesbians but its probably already here or not too far off.

Uh-oh! Double y chromosomes coming up! Aliens 3 anyone?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XYY_syndrome

Also, males have X chromosomes also, if they are going to use tools to create children, then they are bound to use X chromosomes.

Actually, now they have this new technology now where they can copy the DNA from one sperm to a blank egg and mate it with another sperm, effectively allowing homosexuals to have kids of their own.

I'm not sure if they have a similar thing going for lesbians but its probably already here or not too far off.

Experimental...dangerous...not used ATM...and again, as I said - requires assistance from a third party.

You seem to mistake a homosexual couple with an individual homosexual. If a homosexual wants to have children, nothing stops him from finding a female mate. Again, ancient greece didn't find trouble increasing their population.

It's probably not even genetic (at least fully) anyway. Societies pressures are part of the human condition now so one can't say behaviors caused by society are "unnatural".

THIS is where we disagreed, by your labeling society's influence natural and me saying its not.

Cultural influence? Highly unlikely.. How would you explain kids growing up in vastly different families end up homosexual? Sexual attraction is not a learend behavioour...it instinctive...primal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual

The American Academy of Pediatrics has stated "Sexual orientation probably is not determined by any one factor but by a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences."

[KappaWing]

Uh-oh! Double y chromosomes coming up! Aliens 3 anyone?

Only a 25% chance of that, Wobble. 

Then everything we do is "unnatural". You go to school? Unnatural. You use computers? Unnatural. And so on. The very language you speak and how you think also due to society's influence on you.

Now now, I'm talking specifically about society's influence on the suppressing of a genetic trait, which I think, is unnatural.

Cultural influence? Highly unlikely.. How would you explain kids growing up in vastly different families end up homosexual? Sexual attraction is not a learend behavioour...it instinctive...primal.

Yes I completley agree. if you read all my other posts....

Its genetic, first and foremost, but an oppressive society can force some homosexuals to lead heterosexual lives.

[Ghostavo]

Then everything we do is "unnatural". You go to school? Unnatural. You use computers? Unnatural. And so on. The very language you speak and how you think also due to society's influence on you.

Now now, I'm talking specifically about society's influence on the suppressing of a genetic trait, which I think, is unnatural.

But homosexuals aren't repressing a genetic trait if they have sexual intercourse with a female. Just as a heterosexual isn't repressing a genetic trait if they have sexual intercourse with a male. You can't say human behavior within a society is unnatural since it is human nature to make societies.

Also, why consider what society represses as "unnatural" and what it encourages as "natural"? Is monogamy or polygamy unnatural then?

EDIT:
The thread's title is starting to make sense in a slightly ironic point of view.

[TrashMan]

I'm still waiting for you to answer my question of explaining the sizable portion of homosexuals in the population.

1% to 20%...a HUGE difference... in other words we know jack s*** just how many there are.

And didn't I explain? Some things are just more likely to happen. Like in a factory process - a car with switched signal light is for instance more probable to happen than a car wihout brakes.

You seem to mistake a homosexual couple with an individual homosexual. If a homosexual wants to have children, nothing stops him from finding a female mate. Again, ancient greece didn't find trouble increasing their population.

NOT with their chosen life partner.. THAT is the problem. By heterosexuals 2 is enough.

The American Academy of Pediatrics has stated "Sexual orientation probably is not determined by any one factor but by a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences."

No offense, but AAOP is not exaclty a institution according to whos guides I'd be raising my kids.

[Ghostavo]

I'm still waiting for you to answer my question of explaining the sizable portion of homosexuals in the population.

1% to 20%...a HUGE difference... in other words we know jack s*** just how many there are.

And didn't I explain? Some things are just more likely to happen. Like in a factory process - a car with switched signal light is for instance more probable to happen than a car wihout brakes.

An error doesn't occur in the genetic code at THAT rate! Even if you consider a 1% rate, it's still a huge rate! It can't be errors every single time.

You seem to mistake a homosexual couple with an individual homosexual. If a homosexual wants to have children, nothing stops him from finding a female mate. Again, ancient greece didn't find trouble increasing their population.

NOT with their chosen life partner.. THAT is the problem. By heterosexuals 2 is enough.

But monogamy isn't the only form of mariage! You seem to be still stuck in "monogamic heterosexual is the only natural behavior" kind of thinking. Also, sex isn't only about reproduction, especially in the case of homosexuals. They can leave the reproduction part of sex to a mate they will later find.

The American Academy of Pediatrics has stated "Sexual orientation probably is not determined by any one factor but by a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences."

No offense, but AAOP is not exaclty a institution according to whos guides I'd be raising my kids.

Why is that? Because of that statement?

[TrashMan]

An error doesn't occur in the genetic code at THAT rate! Even if you consider a 1% rate, it's still a huge rate! It can't be errors every single time.

You sure? Do me a favor and pull up some numbers of people with Alzheimers adn similar conditions. I assure you the number is quite high.
**** happens..and quite often too.

But monogamy isn't the only form of mariage! You seem to be still stuck in "monogamic heterosexual is the only natural behavior" kind of thinking. Also, sex isn't only about reproduction, especially in the case of homosexuals. They can leave the reproduction part of sex to a mate they will later find.

Sigh...you're again forgetting the basic design purpose of a human.. which is made more difficult by this..condition.
Plainly put homosexuals are less likely to reproduce....they don't feel drawn to hte opposite sex (which is a crucial factor for it)...even if they do engage in said relations, its becaouse they HAVE TO do it, not becosue they WANT to do it.

Why is that? Because of that statement?

No.. Let's jsut say I don't like the lifestyle in america...or should I say culture...as well as pediatric approach