Author Topic: Post Capella, would another Colossus be built?  (Read 37642 times)

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Offline TrashMan

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Re: Post Capella, would another Colossus be built?
COMMAND BRIEFING 2

Stalemate in Sirius

The GTD Aquitaine will lead the allied counterstrike against Koth and his warships. We will resupply in Capella before shipping out to the front.

We have also learned our campaign in Sirius has failed. A two-pronged offensive launched from Alpha Centauri and Deneb encountered fierce resistance. Unless we can devise a military solution for dealing with the rebels, the GTVA will be forced to recognize the NTF's authority in Sirius, Regulus, and Polaris.
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Offline Snail

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Re: Post Capella, would another Colossus be built?
The Colossus may have been a good accomplishment combat-wise, but psychologically, it was a horrible memory. Think of it like 9/11. Why haven't the US built another World Trade Center at that spot? It would carry too many bad memories.

 

Offline Mobius

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Re: Post Capella, would another Colossus be built?
EDIT:I think i found karma's email address-      [email protected] For the HTL Colossus's ass.

He doesn't even read his e-mails. I tried to contact him a few months ago!

They have to test it for one, and two They Were Not Loosing.

Read TrashMan's post. They were losing the civil war. In any case, the NTF was more than a serious threat.

 

Offline Frosty

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Re: Post Capella, would another Colossus be built?
GTVA wasn't loosing the war, it wasnt going to loose the war.  Problem was that the conflict had gone on for longer than expected and more resources and men were being lost in a conflict that wasn't truly backed by the GTVA populace (think Vietnam here).  There was probably tons of political pressure on the GTVA to settle the conflict.


 

Offline Mobius

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Re: Post Capella, would another Colossus be built?
Being forced to reckognize the NTF's authority in three important systems in a terrible political defeat.

 

Offline Bob-san

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Re: Post Capella, would another Colossus be built?
The NTF's authority would likely split the GTVA itself. More people see this rogue group saying "We are the NTF and we'd like to be as close to earth possible". More Terrans go off to join the NTF Rebellion and destroy all Vasudans, invite the Shivans back, and attend the first-ever Shivan-Terran BBQ! Unfortunately, the Terrans are now all ON the BBQ.
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Offline AlphaOne

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Re: Post Capella, would another Colossus be built?
when are we talking about the whole fleet beeing destroyed we should consider if petrarch was refering to the whole fleet that was sent to capella to help evacuate the refugees and stop the shivans from getting out of the sistem or rather the entire GTVA fleet's put toghether! I mean come on!

Are you seriously gooing to stay there and say to me that GTVA command managed to lose at least 30 destroyers even more corvettes 50 or more and at least 60 or more cruisers in one day???

Since well we seem to have 1-2 destroyers per fleet ! Of course there could be more then 2 but i think 2 destroyers per fleet is the general deployment!
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Offline Bob-san

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Re: Post Capella, would another Colossus be built?
I'd say it's plausible. Remember the GTVA have a limited number of ships... probably in the hundreds for combat ships (cruisers and up). Not to mention how many fighters they lost to the hordes of Shivans...
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Offline Horus

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Re: Post Capella, would another Colossus be built?
To throw the entire fleet and thats millions of lives and prob trilloions of dollars into the fire to evacuate one system is a bad stragic decision and you would think the big genrals in command would have thought of that and kept somthing in resurve incase the plan didnt work.

Its no doubt that GTVA got a caining in Capella(and the entire shivan invasion) but they would not have lost everything like Trashman said prob 60-70% lost

 

Offline Bob-san

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Re: Post Capella, would another Colossus be built?
I'd say that post-Capella, the GTVA lost probably 40% of their ship-going personal to the NTF and the Shivans. Make no mistake--that is a heck of a lot of people to die... that would have absolutely decimated the GTVA offensive capability, as so much of the fleet would be required to simply sit around and "defend", making the presence of the fleet to quell rebellion, piracy, and boost civilian morale.
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Offline Sarafan

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Re: Post Capella, would another Colossus be built?
GTVA wasn't loosing the war, it wasnt going to loose the war.  Problem was that the conflict had gone on for longer than expected and more resources and men were being lost in a conflict that wasn't truly backed by the GTVA populace (think Vietnam here).  There was probably tons of political pressure on the GTVA to settle the conflict.



And how do we know that? In absolutely no place does the game show us the fact that the population doesnt support the war. For all we know the NTF might not even be that popular in its own systems!


when are we talking about the whole fleet beeing destroyed we should consider if petrarch was refering to the whole fleet that was sent to capella to help evacuate the refugees and stop the shivans from getting out of the sistem or rather the entire GTVA fleet's put toghether! I mean come on!

Are you seriously gooing to stay there and say to me that GTVA command managed to lose at least 30 destroyers even more corvettes 50 or more and at least 60 or more cruisers in one day???

Since well we seem to have 1-2 destroyers per fleet ! Of course there could be more then 2 but i think 2 destroyers per fleet is the general deployment!

To throw the entire fleet and thats millions of lives and prob trilloions of dollars into the fire to evacuate one system is a bad stragic decision and you would think the big genrals in command would have thought of that and kept somthing in resurve incase the plan didnt work.

Its no doubt that GTVA got a caining in Capella(and the entire shivan invasion) but they would not have lost everything like Trashman said prob 60-70% lost

Somewhat 30 destroyers, 50 corvettes and a unknow number of cruisers and fighters against a enemy that has more than that since we know the shivans are swarming/overruning allied positions and has 80 juggernauts. I agree that the GTVA might not have sent the whole fleet, some assets probably were held back for defence in case the shivans break trough, but they did sent the majority of the fleet.

The GTVA's objective is not just to evacuate Capella, it's to also stop the shivans at Capella because if they do break trough it's the end for the GTVA. And when you're facing the odds of virtual anhiliattion of your species you send out every ship to stop the enemy. Why do you think the GTVA resorted to a desperate tatic such as cutting off Capella? The GTVA saw that they had no chance to win this.

 

Offline Kie99

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Re: Post Capella, would another Colossus be built?
Sending your entire fleet to fight against 80 Juggernauts is absolute insanity.  It would not even slow the Shivans' advance.
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Offline Sarafan

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Re: Post Capella, would another Colossus be built?
Sending your entire fleet to fight against 80 Juggernauts is absolute insanity.  It would not even slow the Shivans' advance.

Exactly, there is no point in egaging them, that's something they clearly saw. That's why the GTVA decided to close the nodes, they were desperate, they sent the fleet to buy as much time to evacuate as much people as possible before it happened. However the Juggernauts just ignored them to do what they were going to do, much to the relief of the GTVA who of course didnt knew of the shivans's intentions. The rest of the shivans, which were a considerable force, however, engaged the GTVA fleet non stop.

 

Offline Kie99

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Re: Post Capella, would another Colossus be built?
No...regardless of that, if the Juggernauts had been intent on rampaging through Capella, the fleet wouldn't have posed any treat to them whatsoever.  Being generous, assume the GTVA sends 100 Destroyers.  That fleet would be gone within seconds once it came up against the Juggernaut fleet.  Just look at what happened to the Psamtik and Phoenecia.  It would have bought virtually no time.

Petrach states that there have been "Over 100,000 casualties" which sets an upper limit of about 125,000?  That's 12 or so destroyers, Terran and Vasudan, not to mention losses of corvettes, cruisers, installation and civilian casualties.  I doubt less than 12 destroyers forms more than say 30% of the GTVA's entire armada.
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Offline Sarafan

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Re: Post Capella, would another Colossus be built?
No, I understand and I agree with that, there is no point in engaging the Juggernauts, it's a lost battle. :) But the GTVA had to send the fleet, they're not just going to leave the millions of civillians there to die and that's why I said that much to the GTVA's relief, the Juggernauts just ignored them.

But definitely on the moment the GTVA notices that the Juggernauts are heading for them, they would pull out immediately.

 

Offline Horus

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Re: Post Capella, would another Colossus be built?

The GTVA's objective is not just to evacuate Capella, it's to also stop the shivans at Capella because if they do break trough it's the end for the GTVA. And when you're facing the odds of virtual anhiliattion of your species you send out every ship to stop the enemy. Why do you think the GTVA resorted to a desperate tatic such as cutting off Capella? The GTVA saw that they had no chance to win this.
[/quote]

To hold the shivans in Capella it would be better to blockade the node rather than thinly spread your already damaged fleet across the whole system and deploy just whats necessary to cover the transports. Node is bottle neck and easy to bring all the firepower down on it.

 

Offline Sarafan

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Re: Post Capella, would another Colossus be built?

To hold the shivans in Capella it would be better to blockade the node rather than thinly spread your already damaged fleet across the whole system and deploy just whats necessary to cover the transports. Node is bottle neck and easy to bring all the firepower down on it.

The GTVA was doing that, the problem is that the shivans had so much ships that they were overrun.

 
Re: Post Capella, would another Colossus be built?
Actually, the really interesting thing about the Juggernauts is where they were going and what they were doing.

The Lucifer was one thing. It went straight for big population centers and destroyed them. The Sathanas however, as best as I can recall, only ever attacked GTVA military forces. Even then, they usually blew up one or two of whatever the biggest thing around was, and then left, even if there were other ships in the area. The Sathanas that takes down the Colossus, for example, leaves immediately afterwards, completely ignoring the other GTVA forces there.

Really, the only thing that really makes sense, from the Shivan perspective, was that their primary goal was to sever all links with Terran/Vasudan space while causing as few non-military casualties as they could. They identified the one system that linked into Shivan space (Capella), and assaulted military targets exclusively with sufficient force that the GTVA evacuated the system. Once that was underway, they blew up the star to completely eliminate any possible extended confrontation between themselves and the GTVA.

Think about it. They had dozens of Sathanas juggernauts. If their objective had been to lay waste, there's nothing the GTVA could have done to stop it. They would have flooded Capella with juggernauts, taken over all the jump nodes out of Capella AND their far sides, and turned any inhabited planets there into cinders, and the GTVA would have been completely helpless.

This was a defensive fight for the Shivans. THEY were trying to protect themselves from US. Nothing else really makes sense.

Anyway, back on topic, it doesn't seem likely that the GTVA would be building anything on the Colossus scale anytime soon. The NTF is gone, their fleet has been chopped way down, and they've got a LOT of star systems to patrol. The Colossus was built to be a fleet-buster, able to sail right into the middle of an enemy formation and lay waste in all directions. Right now, their primary enemies(pirates, rebels, mercenaries, etc) are going to small, scattered, and hard to pin down. What the GTVA is going to need first, and most desperately, is lots and lots of cruisers and corvettes just to keep sufficient military presence in their space to keep the peace.


 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Post Capella, would another Colossus be built?
That convoy was as large or larger than the one in Battle of the Wilderness, and the Wilderness convoy was intended for the entirety of 3rd Fleet. (It also included no fueling ships!)
Uh, no.  That convoy was only carrying TAG missiles, and only for the Warspite.  Reread the briefing.


This was a defensive fight for the Shivans. THEY were trying to protect themselves from US. Nothing else really makes sense.
And another uh, no.  This has already been discussed and refuted here.  It's inconceivable in so many ways that the Shivans would be scared of us.  Their objective wasn't annihilation this time; it was something different.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2007, 01:31:55 am by Goober5000 »

 

Offline S-99

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Re: Post Capella, would another Colossus be built?
The gtva didn't lose their whole fleet. That's stupid considering it's the gtva which spans many systems, and they have ships that number in the hundreds, if they didn't well then **** they're spread too thin to do anything. It seems obvious that they sent the appropriate resources to capella to oversee the evacuation since they were already evacuating way before those 80 sathani showed up. GTVA already had the ships necessary in system for evacuation and keeping the shivans from breaking through, it was resources set in place when the first sathanas showed up. Plus the GTVA had several ships in the nebula and gamma draconis already doing exploration and shivan hunting. They already had considerable resources that were already at or very close to capella...not to mention the evacuation fleet again doing what it was already doing.

With this evacuation plan in mind and existing forces already close to capella that were pulling out and were still around before they left capella. You know that the gtva was not spread too thin. They had all the necessary resources to do a system evacuation, but not really to blockade a node. From the last two missions, where the mesonned up orion is going to collapse the node, there was only a defense force for the mesonned orion....in other words no blockade necessary. And on the last mission of fs2 where you were on the other side of the last node to be collapsed, there was only a deimos, after that you had this convoy of evacuees coming through. Again, no blockade necessary, you just need to get the mesons through and you have a permanent blockade. I mean all it took was a couple wings of fighters and some cruisers to keep the shivans off of the mesonned up orion to get it to it's detonation spot. Not to mention the blockade of that node on the last mission is on the other side of it, and i don't mean the side that A1 was on. You want to see a real blockade? Go to that one mission in fs2 where you were with the 64th raptors and the mjolnir cannons, that's an actual blockade.

The gtva lost some valuable ships and stuff, but some stuff is apparent. They only had the resources set in place for evacuation and collapsing of the nodes. And by ****s sake you don't need all of the gtva's ships in the whole entire gtva to do that.

The gtva didn't lose 100% of all it's ships in capella. When petrarch says the fleet was decimated, wiped out, whatever, those stupid people just love to take that too broadly. The gtva is made up of ****loads of fleets. That means when petrarch says that the fleet was decimated after you outran a supernova and the rest of the fleet in capella couldn't, he figured that you'd know what he's talking about given that you were there.
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