[Gamma_Draconis]

Or maybe a few SoC operatives disabled the engines and weapons system of a Mara wing and towed them back to a Destroyer or something.

[Ghostavo]

Shivans seem to have much more powerful reactors...were any Shivan capital ships ever definitively captured and analyzed? I know that the Taranis was captured, but was destroyed at Tombaugh.
If Hall Fight is canonical, then an Azrael was also captured, but the boarding party was slaughtered. Depending on when Antares fell, that may have come to nothing as well.

Anyhow, the weaponry on the SC Lilith is a pretty good indicator of their reactor tech...LRed on a cruiser? Along with Shivan AF beams and, IIRC, a pretty good speed, that far outranks any Terran ship.

I definitely agree with you there.  What I want to know is, how exactly did SOC forces capture those SF Maras near the beginning?  The fact that they were in decent enough condition to modify for Terrans and improve upon it means they didn't damage them, so they either stole them from those large Shivan cargo containers, or what I think happened, was they successfully captured a Shivan warship which carried those fighters and hauled them back.

If they boarded a Shivan warship successfully for those Maras, then what class of warship does SOC have in its possession?  My guess is a Moloch, but when we talk SOC, Ravanas or Demon-class destroyers aren't impossible     Which would mean, in a few years, hello GTVA LReds and BFReds!

Or they did what the player did in FS1 with the Dragon.

[Fang_Taichou]

Shivans seem to have much more powerful reactors...were any Shivan capital ships ever definitively captured and analyzed? I know that the Taranis was captured, but was destroyed at Tombaugh.
If Hall Fight is canonical, then an Azrael was also captured, but the boarding party was slaughtered. Depending on when Antares fell, that may have come to nothing as well.

Anyhow, the weaponry on the SC Lilith is a pretty good indicator of their reactor tech...LRed on a cruiser? Along with Shivan AF beams and, IIRC, a pretty good speed, that far outranks any Terran ship.

I definitely agree with you there.  What I want to know is, how exactly did SOC forces capture those SF Maras near the beginning?  The fact that they were in decent enough condition to modify for Terrans and improve upon it means they didn't damage them, so they either stole them from those large Shivan cargo containers, or what I think happened, was they successfully captured a Shivan warship which carried those fighters and hauled them back.

If they boarded a Shivan warship successfully for those Maras, then what class of warship does SOC have in its possession?  My guess is a Moloch, but when we talk SOC, Ravanas or Demon-class destroyers aren't impossible     Which would mean, in a few years, hello GTVA LReds and BFReds!

Or they did what the player did in FS1 with the Dragon.

The Dragon captured in FS1 was severely damaged and didn't function well, thus handled worse than the original.  The Maras were made better than the original, which suggests they didn't damage/disable it.  These kinds of captures usually mean they either captured them while they were shipped in those giant cargo containers, or captured by boarding a Shivan warship (Moloch, Ravana, Demon).  SOC has the skills and equipment to do so, after all 32 years is plenty of time to make hand-held weaponry that can 1-shot a Shivan right?

[Ghostavo]

No.

To give us a fighting chance, our unit will fly a wing of Shivan fighters SOC forces captured early in the nebula campaign.

I highly doubt that the GTVA could capture a shivan warship capable of housing fighters. Even more so in the nebula. Even more so early in the campaign. They most likely captured it like the Dragon was captured in FS1. The Dragon in FS1 had a faulty drive because the GTA had dificulty modifying the ship, which didn't seem to be a problem with the Maras.

[Mobius]

Well the player was only supposed to disable it with a disruptor. I think the problems were caused by the GTA's complete lack of valid informations regarding Shivan craft.

[foolfromhell]

You mean the ship?There is a Terran Mara in FRED2.No mods involved.

No, no...a link to that FS1 thing about Pre-Grear War shields!!!

The Bastion has shields protecting the hangar bay in FS1.
Look at the main menu background.
They couldnt have put shields there so quickly.

[Colonol Dekker]

Well the player was only supposed to disable it with a disruptor. I think the problems were caused by the GTA's complete lack of valid informations regarding Shivan craft.

Quite right, don't forget they had 32 years to study the dragon and any other derelict craft, the freighter from hallfight.mve springs to mind too...

[Mobius]

Quite right, don't forget they had 32 years to study the dragon and any other derelict craft, the freighter from hallfight.mve springs to mind too...

The Bastion has shields protecting the hangar bay in FS1.
Look at the main menu background.
They couldnt have put shields there so quickly.

Is that canon or pseudo canon? Or just a simple misunderstanding?

[Fang_Taichou]

No.

To give us a fighting chance, our unit will fly a wing of Shivan fighters SOC forces captured early in the nebula campaign.

I highly doubt that the GTVA could capture a shivan warship capable of housing fighters. Even more so in the nebula. Even more so early in the campaign. They most likely captured it like the Dragon was captured in FS1. The Dragon in FS1 had a faulty drive because the GTA had dificulty modifying the ship, which didn't seem to be a problem with the Maras.

I agree, regular GTVA forces wouldn't have a chance to steal a Shivan warship with fighterbays.  SOC, on the other hand, I can see having a good chance with all the elite personnel and classified advanced hardware (they had Erinyes +Kaysers in that 1st SOC loop) to pull off such a stunt.

I mean, c'mon, its SOC we're talking about!  They don't operate or take orders from Command  

[Ghostavo]

I see, I guess Command should have sent the SOC against the Ravana instead of losing a destroyer and damaging several warships in the process before they finally destroyed the Ravana. Or the Moloch that almost destroyed the Aquitaine.

Just because it's SOC doesn't mean they're invencible/can do anything. Capturing a shivan warship capable of housing fighters, early in the campaign, inside the nebula is impossible.

[Fang_Taichou]

I see, I guess Command should have sent the SOC against the Ravana instead of losing a destroyer and damaging several warships in the process before they finally destroyed the Ravana. Or the Moloch that almost destroyed the Aquitaine.

Just because it's SOC doesn't mean they're invencible/can do anything. Capturing a shivan warship capable of housing fighters, early in the campaign, inside the nebula is impossible.

Command doesn't have control over SOC operations, thus they sent in the regulars and hit smacked around.  The GTVI is the one who bosses around SOC.

Well let's see the SOC's accomplishments:

Hijacked a NTF transport carrying top-secret ETAK stuff, taking down several Aeolus cruisers and NTF Herc 2 fighter wings by calling in Erinyes fighters, an AWACs and a Deimos (all done DEEP in enemy lines mind you), then turning the officers of the NTCv Sevrin into scapegoats and had them executed 

Stole a wing of Maras from somewhere in the nebula, date, location and method unknown.

Rescued Lt. Cmdr. Snipes in heavy EM nebula against a significant Shivan presence.

Flew a suicide mission of 4 upgraded SF Maras and attacked Shivans in their territory without backup (well I always managed to kill the 3 Rakshasas, 3 Comm nodes and all fighter/bomber wings, then damage the Nebiros for a bit).

There's definitely more to the list, but we aren't aware of it.

Besides Alpha 1, SOC are the other guys who make the impossible, possible 

[Gamma_Draconis]

I love SOC. It's always a pleasure to fly with them. Especially their attitudes. They are truly some of the best pilots out there.

[akenbosch]

the SOC kinda reminds me of HLP...

[Fang_Taichou]

One yeah the other major GTVA advantage I forgot to add:  The GTVA has SOC 

I mean Alpha 1 rocks but he/she is just an individual, while SOC is a large number of Alpha 1's who can do just about anything

The other advantage SOC get is that Command can't order them around, only GTVI can 

[akenbosch]

the same GTVI that tried to overthrow the GTVA (who is worthless without one stinkin pilot)?

sounds like trouble for command if you ask me.

[Fang_Taichou]

the same GTVI that tried to overthrow the GTVA (who is worthless without one stinkin pilot)?

sounds like trouble for command if you ask me.

That was GTI, 10 years before the GTVA was formed.

[Polpolion]

Reproducing the Shivan technology shouldn't be hard, all you have to do is figure out the molecular composition of the hull parts and subsystems.  Easy to do with all the debris you made shooting them down + SOC captured Shivan cargo.

Just getting the molecular composition of something barely does anything, other than maybe you can figure out what their hull is made of and stuff like that. But for subsystems it would be useless. And your acting like you can just go into a debris field after a battle and find random subsystem lying around in relatively good condition. Yeah sure, you could find some stuff, but that would be very rare. After all, how many times have you killed an enemy fighter to have it not explode, just lie there derelict? And your acting like SOC has captured shivan craft in stores, just waiting to be handed out.


EDIT: And you guys are acting like capturing enemy vessels is a viable tactic. Think about it: in WWII what is the ratio of captured enemy vessels to sunk enemy vessels? It is a task a lot more difficult than you think, especially in Freespace. And what about the Shivans aboard, say a cruiser size vessel? I'd say there is at least a couple hundred. How difficult would it be to capture that?

[Bob-san]

If you send in the SOC pilots and SOC marines, I'd say it's quite feasible and a very good idea. My question is where did we get so much Shivan-based tech? SOC probably acquired 90% of it in off-the-books operations. Anyways--I think only the GTVI's SOC could really be effective at capturing ships.

[akenbosch]

if im right, disableing a cruiser would leave its reactor intact along with everything out, just short out [power relays topo the engine systems. and with a supposed 10 shivans on a freighter...that would be 30 on the cruiser shivans for the SOC to capture/kill before getting too the tech.

[Gamma_Draconis]

SOC is made of a small group of the most elite pilots, captains, and crewmen. We don't even know if there are SOC marines. I doubt they really have enough manpower to take over a Shivan capital ship. And even if they did, they would lose quite of men. I suspect there would be around 100 Shivans on a cruiser.