[Hades]

God some parts of Fs2 sucked.All the cliff hangers, and such.I bet they thought they were going to make a

Spoiler:

F*S*3.

[Vip]

And they were cocky and militaristic...I hardly accept the idea that they have never developed uber-warships. Pride was a valid reason to do that.

"Ours was a cocky and militartisc people"

The main motor to build new ships is the presence of a new threat. It is possible they had built an ubership, given their vast resources... But why would they ? Just for pride ? It is as well possible that they considered an equivalent of our own Orion as a "super juggernaut" and were proud they had an armda of juggernauts ?

We had Orions; Shivans sent a Lucy. This made us build a Collie. Shivans sent the Sathanas - so we can assume that if the GTVA is given enough time, it will built a Juggernaut with BFReds capable of taking multiple Sathanas at once. Then the Shivans will send in... oh wait, that's Inferno already

[Vip]

God some parts of Fs2 sucked.All the cliff hangers, and such.I bet they thought they were going to make a

Spoiler:

F*S*3.

NOOOOOO !!! Not the forbidden three letters ! Some Vasudans mentioned it and Vasuda Prime was blown up ! Bastion pilots discussed it, and the Delta Serpentis=>Earth node was lost ! Command ordered development of it in the Capella, and the Capella sun went nova. Those are the words of doom ! Luckily, pilots before the "Into the Lion's Den" didn't talk about it, or else their burners would not work

[Gamma_Draconis]

Very true, however logic dictates that you don't place beams as the main weapon of a Lucy-killer (Colossus) if it's not going to work against a Lucy. I guess that the GTA and PVN could take enough scans of the Lucy shields to judge whether the beams would be good enough or not. Besides, I don't think a shield would be as powerful to remain intact after being hit with an energy of such output. Perhaps it could last for a shot or two, but I just won't believe that it could survivie multiple hits by BGreens or BFGreens

Actually, the reason they used beams as the primary weapons on the Collie was because it was the best anti-capital ship weaponry they had. It would be logical that you put your most powerful weapons to defeat a nearly indestructible ship. Chances are, they probably hoped beams were strong enough to penetrate the shields.

[Mobius]

The main motor to build new ships is the presence of a new threat. It is possible they had built an ubership, given their vast resources... But why would they ? Just for pride ?

Yes

It is as well possible that they considered an equivalent of our own Orion as a "super juggernaut" and were proud they had an armda of juggernauts ?

No, since all FS species have destroyers who are similar in size. Orion, Hecate, Typhon, Hatshepsut, Demon and Ravana. They're pretty much the same(launch capabilities and 2km long hull). This is the canon definition for "destroyer".

We had Orions; Shivans sent a Lucy. This made us build a Collie. Shivans sent the Sathanas - so we can assume that if the GTVA is given enough time, it will built a Juggernaut with BFReds capable of taking multiple Sathanas at once. Then the Shivans will send in... oh wait, that's Inferno already

Good, good...you're learning. Join the Red Side...consider Inferno as Canon...
 

God some parts of Fs2 sucked.All the cliff hangers, and such.I bet they thought they were going to make a

Spoiler:

F*S*3.

NOOOOOO !!! Not the forbidden three letters ! Some Vasudans mentioned it and Vasuda Prime was blown up ! Bastion pilots discussed it, and the Delta Serpentis=>Earth node was lost ! Command ordered development of it in the Capella, and the Capella sun went nova. Those are the words of doom ! Luckily, pilots before the "Into the Lion's Den" didn't talk about it, or else their burners would not work

So true!

[Fang_Taichou]

How the heck does anything larger than a Sathanas go through those small jump nodes anyways?

Well if the Ancients had an ubership, it was no match for the Lucifer apparently.  Which leads me to believe their biggest ship might've been superdestroyer-class at best.

I know for sure the Ancients didn't have beam weapons, since the best they came up with killing the Lucifer was taking it out in subspace.

Besides, if the Lucifer shielding was strong enough to repel beam fire, then supposedly the GTVA would've done the same to its warships (at least the Colossus or the destroyers) so it wouldn't get vapourized by Shivan warships.

[Vip]

The main motor to build new ships is the presence of a new threat. It is possible they had built an ubership, given their vast resources... But why would they ? Just for pride ?

Yes

Ummm, no more questions...

It is as well possible that they considered an equivalent of our own Orion as a "super juggernaut" and were proud they had an armda of juggernauts ?

No, since all FS species have destroyers who are similar in size. Orion, Hecate, Typhon, Hatshepsut, Demon and Ravana. They're pretty much the same(launch capabilities and 2km long hull). This is the canon definition for "destroyer".

Yeah... but for the Ancients their destroyers could seem to be the hugest ships in the universe, just as Terrans probably viewed the Orion once.

Good, good...you're learning. Join the Red Side...consider Inferno as Canon...
 

I have no problems with FS on Medium; I have no problems with playing BtRL on Hard. But I ust can't seem do the same with Inferno. Hell, I stoped at the first mission with the... SD Diabolli (or whatever it was called). The beams are just so uberpowerful and the ships have so ubermany HPs, I can't beat it even on Very Easy, not to mention harder settings... There's something fishy going on here...

How the heck does anything larger than a Sathanas go through those small jump nodes anyways?

Well if the Ancients had an ubership, it was no match for the Lucifer apparently.  Which leads me to believe their biggest ship might've been superdestroyer-class at best.

I know for sure the Ancients didn't have beam weapons, since the best they came up with killing the Lucifer was taking it out in subspace.

Besides, if the Lucifer shielding was strong enough to repel beam fire, then supposedly the GTVA would've done the same to its warships (at least the Colossus or the destroyers) so it wouldn't get vapourized by Shivan warships.

Listen to the man, he talks smart stuff and makes good points. I have doubts only about the last point - the GTVA never had a chance to test their beams against sheilds, and I believe the biggest problem with shielding a capship would be power - you'd need a Juggernaut class reactors do shield a Fenris

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll go to bed and have nightmares about a Pegasus fighter right in front of my HUD... Sca~~ry

[TrashMan]

It is as well possible that they considered an equivalent of our own Orion as a "super juggernaut" and were proud they had an armda of juggernauts ?

No, since all FS species have destroyers who are similar in size. Orion, Hecate, Typhon, Hatshepsut, Demon and Ravana. They're pretty much the same(launch capabilities and 2km long hull). This is the canon definition for "destroyer".

What's stoping them for naming their ship classes whatever they like?
For all we know tehy might have called destroyers "Massacrators" or whatever...sheesh

[Mobius]

Because the nodes were designed in FS1 and were supposed to be enough for destroyers/superdestroyers only?

Well if the Ancients had an ubership, it was no match for the Lucifer apparently.  Which leads me to believe their biggest ship might've been superdestroyer-class at best.

Who said that the Lucifer fought the Ancients?!?

I know for sure the Ancients didn't have beam weapons, since the best they came up with killing the Lucifer was taking it out in subspace.

Again, how do you know that they fought a Lucifer?

Besides, if the Lucifer shielding was strong enough to repel beam fire, then supposedly the GTVA would've done the same to its warships (at least the Colossus or the destroyers) so it wouldn't get vapourized by Shivan warships.

Umpf!

Ummm, no more questions...

Good boy! 

Yeah... but for the Ancients their destroyers could seem to be the hugest ships in the universe, just as Terrans probably viewed the Orion once.

The Terrans knew about superdestroyers...but they simply thought that superdestroyers are useless. The Lucifer changed their mind.

I have no problems with FS on Medium; I have no problems with playing BtRL on Hard. But I ust can't seem do the same with Inferno. Hell, I stoped at the first mission with the... SD Diabolli (or whatever it was called). The beams are just so uberpowerful and the ships have so ubermany HPs, I can't beat it even on Very Easy, not to mention harder settings... There's something fishy going on here...

How's this possible? Inferno is tough, but you seem not to have problems with FS and BtRL...

Listen to the man, he talks smart stuff and makes good points. I have doubts only about the last point - the GTVA never had a chance to test their beams against sheilds, and I believe the biggest problem with shielding a capship would be power - you'd need a Juggernaut class reactors do shield a Fenris

AAA beams penetrate shields of any kind of spacecraft. Beam cannons are much better while the shields of a warship, apparently, have nothing out of the ordinary(they cover an immense hull, but they don't appear to be that tough).

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll go to bed and have nightmares about a Pegasus fighter right in front of my HUD... Sca~~ry

Good luck then. 

What's stoping them for naming their ship classes whatever they like?
For all we know tehy might have called destroyers "Massacrators" or whatever...sheesh

Destroyers are destroyers...central command ships capable of housing spacecraft...2kms long.

Oh...my new quotes record!!! 

[Fang_Taichou]

Lucifers have shielding and planetary bombardment cannons necessary for wiping out life on homeworlds.  Sathanas juggernauts don't have shielding and are used for causing supernovas.

The Ancients went through all the trouble to find out that shielding doesn't work in subspace, which only makes sense if they encountered a shielded warship capable of causing massive destruction such as the SD Lucifer.  I don't think the Ancients would've bothered with all that if only Shivan fighters and bombers had shields on them, since explosives are enough to pierce those weak shields.

[AlphaOne]

Man this was discused vefore the lucyes shields would be useless agins beam cannons! The ancients were taken out by multiple lucy class SD Also They probaly managed to take some of them out ! I know thery are refering to the fact they had the tech but not the means but this could also mean they had no more spaceships capable oh gooing after the Lucy in susbpace to take them out! And even then if they managed to take out all the Lucis there is still a question of wheather they would have the means to continue fighting the ramaining shivan forces!

[Gamma_Draconis]

Uhh, proof? There is no official canon that beams are effective against the Lucifer's shields.

[Fang_Taichou]

Uhh, proof? There is no official canon that beams are effective against the Lucifer's shields.

Let's see, shields require energy to run right?  Well the Lucifer has to output enough energy to cover the entire hull, which is probably why it had 5 reactors.

Now, granted the shields on the Lucifer are far superior than that of a fighter or bomber.  However, if you force more energy against that hull than the shielding energy can compensate for, you ultimately cut through and start melting hull plating.  This is what the anti-capship beam is meant for.

An anti-fighter beam probably wouldn't have the power to make it past shielding, but the strength of a BGreen/BVas, let alone BFGreen/LRBGreen, is plenty to overpower the shielding on a Lucifer.  The Colossus is capable of bringing down 5-6 LRBGreens on a Lucifer all at once, you can't say that much focused energy won't get through the spread apart energy of a Lucifer's shields, can you?

Think of it another way:

If an SD Lucifer ever went renegade/captured by hostile forces, how would the Shivans deal with it?  Call in a Sathanas and overpower the lil' traitor with its 4 BFReds 

[corvette108048]

Another fact is Vasudans had some connection to The Ancients and knew about The Shivans before we first encountered them.

[AlphaOne]

The fact that the game itself says the Colossus was designed to engage multiple destroyers or multiple Lucifer class destroyers at once and still win is ample prouf to me that beams cut through shields like a hot knife through butter!

can remember exactly whre is was discused and i dont really care ! It seems people here are starting to replace what was once common sence wiht thryr own theories as canon evidence sinpli because it fits they logic ! Or campaign developement for that matter! who knows ! Either way i dont care!

[Gamma_Draconis]

That's what they assume. If there was an impenetrable bunker and you finally develop a new type of bomb that can cause major damage, what makes it so that it'll actually work on the bunker? For all we know, the new weaponry despite it being extremely power, may be a fluke against the object it was designed to combat against.

Also, they never commented that the Collie was meant to combat multiple Lucys. They only said it was 3 times the length of the Lucy.

In additional, it would appear the shield the Lucifer used was different from those of the shielding on fighters. For all we know, that shield may absorb the energy from lasers and beams.

[Fang_Taichou]

That's what they assume. If there was an impenetrable bunker and you finally develop a new type of bomb that can cause major damage, what makes it so that it'll actually work on the bunker? For all we know, the new weaponry despite it being extremely power, may be a fluke against the object it was designed to combat against.

Also, they never commented that the Collie was meant to combat multiple Lucys. They only said it was 3 times the length of the Lucy.

In additional, it would appear the shield the Lucifer used was different from those of the shielding on fighters. For all we know, that shield may absorb the energy from lasers and beams.

The Lucifer's shields don't absorb energy, otherwise Sathanas juggernauts would have no way to take out stolen/renegade Lucifers.  Even if it did, there is a limit to how much you can absorb before your reactors/batteries overload.  I'm quite sure 5 or 6 LRBGreens hammering at the Lucifer all at once is more than sufficient to overpower the shielding either way.

[Turey]

The fact that the game itself says the Colossus was designed to engage multiple destroyers or multiple Lucifer class destroyers at once and still win is ample prouf to me that beams cut through shields like a hot knife through butter!

can remember exactly whre is was discused and i dont really care ! It seems people here are starting to replace what was once common sence wiht thryr own theories as canon evidence sinpli because it fits they logic ! Or campaign developement for that matter! who knows ! Either way i dont care!

Is the period key on your keyboard broken? 

[Hades]

To tell you the Truth, I could barely read it and know what it mean't.

[Kie99]

The fact that the game itself says the Colossus was designed to engage multiple destroyers or multiple Lucifer class destroyers at once and still win is ample prouf to me that beams cut through shields like a hot knife through butter!

That'd be a brilliant theory if those things were said in the game rather than your imagination.

Also, they never commented that the Collie was meant to combat multiple Lucys. They only said it was 3 times the length of the Lucy.

It was actually that 12 Lucifers could fit within is massive hull

That's what they assume. If there was an impenetrable bunker and you finally develop a new type of bomb that can cause major damage, what makes it so that it'll actually work on the bunker? For all we know, the new weaponry despite it being extremely power, may be a fluke against the object it was designed to combat against.

Also, they never commented that the Collie was meant to combat multiple Lucys. They only said it was 3 times the length of the Lucy.

In additional, it would appear the shield the Lucifer used was different from those of the shielding on fighters. For all we know, that shield may absorb the energy from lasers and beams.

The Lucifer's shields don't absorb energy, otherwise Sathanas juggernauts would have no way to take out stolen/renegade Lucifers.  Even if it did, there is a limit to how much you can absorb before your reactors/batteries overload.  I'm quite sure 5 or 6 LRBGreens hammering at the Lucifer all at once is more than sufficient to overpower the shielding either way.

Its a complete unknown whether beams could take down the Lucifer's shields or not.  Anything you have to say is mere guesswork.