[AlphaOne]

How in gods name does the Iceni which was designed with those beams in mind and the tech also sais it carries 3 BGreens be the result of a glitch??? Now this i have to see or rathre read...

[Mobius]

Then tell me why the Mentu doesn't have beams, then...

The Iceni has 3 BFGreens only because of "Traitors and Renegades" and the way that mission was designed.

[BengalTiger]

My $0.02:

Let's start from the Iceni- 3 BGreens, 22 other turrets 90k HP and 998 meters long, no fighterbay.

Make it 2x the size- 6 BGreens, 40 other turrets 180k HP and 2 km long, no fighterbay.

3.5 times bigger- 10 BGreens (imagine them overloaded for 3 minutes ), 50 other turrets, small fighterbay instead of the dozen more turrets that would fit on it, about 400k HP (at the cost of speed), 3.5 clicks long. Properly used, the BB could kill a Big 'C' (7 TerSlash, 6 BGreen, 50 other turrets, 1M HP), even though it has less than 1/2 the HP, and the C's fighters would have a hard time counter-attacking because the amount of turrets the Collie has would be defending a 2x smaller target.

Add the Carrier, being and overgrown Hecate, with 200k HP, similar anti-capship weapons, and a dozen more antifigher turrets. And, most importantly: >2x the hangars  (thus more than a Big 'C', so it might defeat one without heavy ship support from any distance >8 km, given enough ammo and spare parts to keep the strike craft running)

Therefore:
2 ships that would take a lot less resources and time to build could take down a Big 'C'. However, a really expensive Big C Mk 2 could be strong enough to require both ships attacking at once to win.

Also- before anyone writes that these ships are too weak to survive- the first measure would be giving them strong sensors and a bunch of stealth fighters to see the enemy first and strike first; if that fails- these ships would need a quickly recharging subspace drive to warp out of trouble.
And finally- If one of these ships gets pwned and forced to make an evac jump, the other, knowing the enemy's position can simply warp in at a good position to counter-attack immediately, something impossilbe for a single jug.

[Mobius]

That's exactly the typical kind of assumption we must avoid, taking in consideration the Iceni and its asimmetrical table entry.

[FreeSpaceFreak]

That's exactly the typical kind of assumption we must avoid, taking in consideration the Iceni and its asimmetrical table entry.

I think BengalTiger made a good estimate here. The Iceni was obviously a GTVA prototype (come on, you can't design and build a ship like that from scratch in 18 months). Before the NTF insurgency, Bosh was a high-ranking GTVA officer, and he used his contacts to gain supervision on the project, modifying it to meet his own needs (ETAK, nice admiral suite...).

This gives an estimate of what the GTVA was about to do: it would have C&C carriers (such as the brand-new Hecate) and small battleships (of which the Iceni was the prototype). Those 'battlefrigates' could be deployed in groups if necessary. The Colossus would be deployed only in special circumstances.

[Mobius]

You don't know it. Find a canon source citing the Iceni as an original GTVA design. The way the Iceni is designed leads me to think that the ETAK device was to be placed at a certain distance from the engines.

[Snail]

The Iceni is described as being created at the Freedom Shipyards "under Bosch's direction." I think it was probably done while he was still a supposedly loyal GTVA officer.

[Mobius]

You underestimate the efficience of shipyards. 18 months are enough to build a corvette, I have seen buildings of similar dimensions being completed in a matter of months.

The strange design has something to do with ETAK. You can't deny it.

[Snail]

You underestimate the efficience of shipyards. 18 months are enough to build a corvette, I have seen buildings of similar dimensions being completed in a matter of months.

The strange design has something to do with ETAK. You can't deny it.

Exactly. It was custom-made by Bosch, it was not a corvette made by the GTVA and simply stolen by Bosch.

[AlphaOne]

Since Bosch Stole the fricking Iceni from the Polaris shipyards wtf. does that tell you? If it was designed and built by him then he wouldnt have to steal it now would he??? For the Love of the fishheadz you have all the evidence you ned to know the Iceni was a GTVA design Bosch was named there to supervise the development and construction fo the thing he then made a few modification so that it could carry the ETAK and then when the thing was ready he took it for himself. Why should he use his own resources time and well waste time to construct and develop it when the GTVA already did that for him all he had to do was a a few modifications to it hide them so that GTVA command wouldnt know about it then steal it and make a run with it.

[mr.WHO]

Iceni was a first of it's kind. It always take much longer to construct prototype than industrial series models.

[AlphaOne]

The construction period of a prototipe can be up to 2x that of a mass produced model already beeing built. Over time construction times can decrease dramaticly since it takes some time to make the whole process more eficient work out the bugs and design errors that may appear etc.

[Snail]

Since Bosch Stole the fricking Iceni from the Polaris shipyards wtf. does that tell you? If it was designed and built by him then he wouldnt have to steal it now would he??? For the Love of the fishheadz you have all the evidence you ned to know the Iceni was a GTVA design Bosch was named there to supervise the development and construction fo the thing he then made a few modification so that it could carry the ETAK and then when the thing was ready he took it for himself. Why should he use his own resources time and well waste time to construct and develop it when the GTVA already did that for him all he had to do was a a few modifications to it hide them so that GTVA command wouldnt know about it then steal it and make a run with it.

The Iceni TD specifically says "under Bosch's direction." If that means Bosch just stole it then maybe I need to learn English and Latin all over again.

[Mobius]

Then why we don't see other Iceni frigates in FS2? The Iceni is definitely an NTF ship built to use ETAK.

[AlphaOne]

And we have never seen military commander taking charge of projects for the military submitting designs for new weapons etc before now have we???

Sure it can be interpreted in 2 ways but the fact that the Iceni was STOLEN from the Polaris shipyards means it was a not a project of Bosch's NTF but a project of Bosch while he was still in the GTVA using theyr funds and resources. And for that you need aproval from the Command.


Edit:

Also we dont see any Iceni's in FS2 because the first of its kind was already stolen it was suposed to be the prototipe . Every new ship has a shakedown cruiser field testing etc. Also the way things developed leads me to believe the Iceni was finished shortly before the NTF rebelion. There was no time to start building on a whole new capship calss with the rebelion. And I believe this was the last thing on the GTVA's mind. Remember the Iceni was NOT a massproduced model.

[Snail]

I think that Bosch planned the rebellion from the beginning. He created the Iceni with approval from GTVA High Command, with help from some of his high-ranking friends up there. When he rebelled, the Iceni was already built or at least mostly finished. He did steal it from Polaris, however, he was also the one who created it. It was always meant for him and no one else.

[Mobius]

You can't prove your theory. What we know leads us to think that the NTF designed the Iceni from scratch.

[Snail]

Whether he designed it during the rebellion or before the rebellion, I personally, don't care. However, what I do care about is whether or not it was an NTF. It was obviously designed by Bosch. It was not a GTVA design that Bosch stole. It belonged to Bosch and no one else. It was always his baby and nobody could take it from him.

[Mobius]

Correct...it was built with the ETAK in mind and has, in fact, a strange design.

[AlphaOne]

I can not agree with you Snail on the whole Bosch had it planned all for himself . I mean i do agree that he designed it for his own agenda however i also believe that he must of submited some sort of plans or something to the GTVA. Even if it was designed by Bosch it must of had the GTVA stamp of aproval. Little did they know that the ship was to be stolen by Bosch.

From this regard you could call it an NTF ship but i definetly believe it was originaly a GTVA designed prototype for a new classs of warships. It doesnt matter that Bosch was its designer and supervisor at the time Bosch was in the GTVA so that makes it a GTVA design. The thing is they only got around to finishing just 1 of them.

The timing of Bosch's stealing and rebelion was perfect this way no other ships of its class would be manufactured any time soon so there was no real danger to him from this regard. He basicly waited patiently recieving a lot arsekissing form the GTVA as to how a wonderfull job he did and then...well we all know what happened next .



You can say all you want that it was designed and built during the NTF rebelion il call you brainless. You CAN NOT design test and built a ship in 18 months The building alone would of taken at least 8 to 12 months not to mention designing it and all the advanced tech he had to put into it in order to make it that powerfull and fast.