[Woolie Wool]

@Snail: Then what does your post have to do with anything? I was telling him that he was saying Sathanas=alive because the Sathanas ships look weird and creepy and that he should try a less ridiculous argument.

[Snail]

Then what does your post have to do with anything? I was telling him that he was saying Sathanas=alive because the Sathanas ships look weird and creepy and that he should try a less ridiculous argument.

I didn't say anything of the sort.

p.s you reply damn quick.

p.s you edit damn quick too.

[Woolie Wool]

Then what does your post have to do with anything? I was telling him that he was saying Sathanas=alive because the Sathanas ships look weird and creepy and that he should try a less ridiculous argument.

I didn't say anything of the sort.

p.s you reply damn quick.

I didn't say you the Sathanas was alive, that's why I said "him" referring to FreeSpaceFreak.

The entire "biotech" argument basically boils down to "Shivan ships kind of look spiky and buglike so therefore they're giant space bugs that grow".

[Snail]

Sorry, but by the time I had replied you had already edited your post.

[FreeSpaceFreak]

@Woolie: I'm not saying these things are living creatures, I'm just disagreeing with two parts of your long post. The rest of it does make sense but I forgot to type that.

BTW, let's try not to get too personal. This is a thread about the Shivans using organic or even biological tech, not about each other's posts.

[Snail]

No, no, I was just clarifying why my post didn't make any sense. Anyway...

[Woolie Wool]

@Woolie: I'm not saying these things are living creatures, I'm just disagreeing with two parts of your long post. The rest of it does make sense but I forgot to type that.

BTW, let's try not to get too personal. This is a thread about the Shivans using organic or even biological tech, not about each other's posts.

The problem with the idea of crystal life forms is that living structures are constantly moving nutrients, wastes, organelles, etc. around. One of the properties of crystals is that all the atoms are completely locked in place and cannot move. They're also impermeable, which makes it impossible for the crystal to take in nutrients and expel wastes.

[terran_emperor]

....

To a post a while back

My Joke was a reference to THE GREAT GONZO! You know...he's a...um...[Interrupted by Gonzo]: Whatever

I guess im the only person here who watches the muppets

As to the Lilin/Archdemon...I created those as a way for the Ship growth lines to make a little more sense.
I only postulate their existance...

And to anyone who wants to bring this down to just

The entire "biotech" argument basically boils down to "Shivan ships kind of look spiky and buglike so therefore they're giant space bugs that grow".

I Could be starting a thread about Terran ships are alive (as in The Transformers alive) simply because they look blocky like Transformers

[Snail]

The problem with the idea of crystal life forms is that living structures are constantly moving nutrients, wastes, organelles, etc. around. One of the properties of crystals is that all the atoms are completely locked in place and cannot move. They're also impermeable, which makes it impossible for the crystal to take in nutrients and expel wastes.

Ravana has tubes which have to have SOME use.


Not that I support the conclusion that Shivan ships are alive. I think the tubes might transfer the needed elements around faster than usual so the Ravana can react quicker than other Shivan ships.

[Woolie Wool]

....

To a post a while back

My Joke was a reference to THE GREAT GONZO! You know...he's a...um...[Interrupted by Gonzo]: Whatever

I guess im the only person here who watches the muppets

As to the Lilin/Archdemon...I created those as a way for the Ship growth lines to make a little more sense.
I only postulate their existance...

And to anyone who wants to bring this down to just

The entire "biotech" argument basically boils down to "Shivan ships kind of look spiky and buglike so therefore they're giant space bugs that grow".

I Could be starting a thread about Terran ships are alive (as in The Transformers alive) simply because thy look blocky like Transformers

You're going to defend the idea of living Shivan ships by citing a series (the Transformers) whose "life" comes from magic (the "sparks")?

On the contrary, the Lilin/Archdemon ships show your position's weakness. If the Shivans have these ass-pull ships, why don't they use them? The Moloch is a pretty crappy corvette and a Lilith derivative with an LRed would be such a vastly superior vessel that the Moloch would have no reason to exist.

The problem with the idea of crystal life forms is that living structures are constantly moving nutrients, wastes, organelles, etc. around. One of the properties of crystals is that all the atoms are completely locked in place and cannot move. They're also impermeable, which makes it impossible for the crystal to take in nutrients and expel wastes.

Ravana has tubes which have to have SOME use.


Not that I support the conclusion that Shivan ships are alive. I think the tubes might transfer the needed elements around faster than usual so the Ravana can react quicker than other Shivan ships.

Why can't they be rigid tubes walled with that red crap and packed with power conduits? I'd guess that they feed energy to the weapons.

[Snail]

Why can't they be rigid tubes walled with that red crap and packed with power conduits? I'd guess that they feed energy to the weapons.

The so called "red crap" is what I meant by "needed elements," which really should be "needed compounds," but oh well.

[Woolie Wool]

I've always thought that the red material was the shell of the tubes and that they were hollow and full of power cables/conduits.

[Snail]

How can they be hollow and full at the same time?

Anyway, I think that the Shvians get their power from the red stuff, which is why it is so common throughout their designs. Even the Asmodeus and the Mephisto have them.

[Mustang19]

Remember, Shivans were originally meant to be green. You can still see some green coloring on the cutscene Lucifer model. So organic Shivans all the way. Eat your veggies... or else.

[Woolie Wool]

How can they be hollow and full at the same time?

Anyway, I think that the Shvians get their power from the red stuff, which is why it is so common throughout their designs. Even the Asmodeus and the Mephisto have them.

Maybe I used the wrong word, but I had the idea that the red material was only the shell or covering of the tubes. The conduits would be bundled inside. The red material appears to be equally as useful as armor as the gray plating.

Remember, Shivans were originally meant to be green. You can still see some green coloring on the cutscene Lucifer model. So organic Shivans all the way. Eat your veggies... or else.

If I paint my car green, is it a living creature? Also, Shivans are not their ships.

[Snail]

If I paint my car green, is it a living creature? Also, Shivans are not their ships.

Apparently the Shivans are "connected" to their ships somehow. I believe that it says in the FSRefBible that a Shivan ship gets its power source from the Shivan itself. Would explain why it was so hard to get the reverse engineered Shivan ships to work.

[Woolie Wool]

If I paint my car green, is it a living creature? Also, Shivans are not their ships.

Apparently the Shivans are "connected" to their ships somehow. I believe that it says in the FSRefBible that a Shivan ship gets its power source from the Shivan itself. Would explain why it was so hard to get the reverse engineered Shivan ships to work.

If Shivans could generate that much power, why do they need fighter weapons at all? How would they support their power generation? How would they survive the energy surging through the biological parts of their bodies (assuming that they are sybernetically enhanced)? I don't recall anything like that in the Reference Bible. The fact that they were able to reverse engineer it at all is evidence that the basis of most of the technologies is similar to that of Terran ships.

[Mustang19]

I was joking. The FS2 techroom strongly suggests that Shivans are both organic and mechanical. It would appear that their ships are the same way.

It has been suggested that what we have actually seen have been either robots or organic creatures in some sort of exo-skeleton. However, we have, at present, no reason to support either hypothesis.

Their insect like carapace does not appear original to the creature's physiology, suggesting the Shivans are a cybernetic fusion of biology and technology. The integrated plasma weapon also exhibits properties of an organic artificial fusion.

[Woolie Wool]

That's about the Shivans, not their ships. Shivan ships are not Shivans.

[terran_emperor]

1st: My citing terran ships as Transformers was a (very bad) joke. You know "ha-ha...(grown)...That was awful" Id completly forgotten about sparks when i posted. But you saying they are magic is the only way to accuratly describe the soul

Hey, i may be semi-aithiest, but i still believe in the soul. Actually I have no well defined patten of belief

2nd: I'm not getting into that Soul/body duallity stuff. If i did we'd be here till chrismas 5,000,000,000,008!

I said Living doesn't necessarily equate alive

But i never said alive=Sentient

Now I'm not going to argue about whether animals are sentient or not...I don't know...By my I can't prove or disprove it. I cant even prove the sentience of anyone else on this forum. I can only prove my own to myself

What i ment was a frog/bear/Pig/Rat/Dog/Whatever's leg might be living but it is the creature's Brain is what makes it alive

3rd: And I know the Lilin and Archdemon not appearing are holes in my theory...my only answer to that is "I wasn't on the Game design Team...(I was only 10)"...

or shivan command could be using them for a secret purpose which requires all ships of that class...
Or by the time the fleets reached us, they had all been destroyed
Or...Using my own arguement...The Lilin/Archdemons had all been destroyed by fs1 and by fs2 or were far behind the lines growing...
That might explain why we only encounter 1 Demon in FS2

I think that all the Lilin being in the Lucifer and Sathanas fleets previously being destroyed is more likely...They were all between growth spurts and all the Lilin had been destroyed.

As for the Archdemon, in the Lucifer fleet, only one Demon survived to become an Archdemon...It then evovled to the next step and was killed in a subspace cataclysm in Mutturs' Stellian Spiral, near Sol 3
In the FS 2 fleet most ships of that growth hadn't been lived long enough to reach even the Demon stage (hey we only encounter) let alone the archangel stage