[terran_emperor]

Thanks...This was something this has been in my mind for a while...Im surprised its not come up before

[Flipside]

I think it has from time to time, but as the knowledge of 'real' science changes, it can alter people's perceptions on the possibilities for 'techno-jargon', so sometimes it's interesting to re-raise a discussion based on new info

The technique of 'growing' wires as nanotubes, for example, is a workable theory here on Earth today, it's basically about as small as technology can get according to current known laws, the downside is still heat, however, but that will change, 20 years ago someone would have thought us insane if we'd said that something more powerful than a mainframe (of the time) would one day sit inside a box the size of an A4 folder.

[Asuko]

Holy ****, I miss a day and all this has been posted up?

[Woolie Wool]

I think it has from time to time, but as the knowledge of 'real' science changes, it can alter people's perceptions on the possibilities for 'techno-jargon', so sometimes it's interesting to re-raise a discussion based on new info

The technique of 'growing' wires as nanotubes, for example, is a workable theory here on Earth today, it's basically about as small as technology can get according to current known laws, the downside is still heat, however, but that will change, 20 years ago someone would have thought us insane if we'd said that something more powerful than a mainframe (of the time) would one day sit inside a box the size of an A4 folder.

How fast does this stuff "grow"? I imagine very slowly. Also, nanotubes are not biotech in any way. They're as dead as a hunk of metal.

[Snail]

Holy ****, I miss a day and all this has been posted up?

It's because Woolie Wool's like me. He posts without thinking and without hesitation...

[Woolie Wool]

No, I entered this debate with a solid position. I didn't need to reconstruct theories on the fly, which means I have a speed advantage.

[Snail]

No, I entered this debate with a solid position. I didn't need to reconstruct theories on the fly, which means I have a speed advantage.

What was that position again? (I haven't read any of this thread really)

[Woolie Wool]

That the idea of biological living, growing Shivan ships is silly, derived from outward appearances of only SOME Shivan ships and sci-fi clichés, and inconsistent with physics and biology. The Shivan ships were built, not grown.

[Topgun]

I agree, but I also say they are part organic.

[Snail]

I agree to an extent.

I think that Shivan ships are made differently from GTVA ships (they grow by a sort of chemical reaction. It creates pure energy while giving off the materials which are eventually self-assembled by some freaky reaction into the ships the Shivans want).

[Asuko]

That's certainly a different take on things. What sort of chemical reaction would this be?

[blowfish]

Proteins fold themselves naturally.  It stands to reason that the same thing could work on a larger scale, especially considering how long the Shivans have been around and how much they could potentially know about biotechnology.

[FreeSpaceFreak]

I think that Shivan ships are made differently from GTVA ships (they grow by a sort of chemical reaction. It creates pure energy while giving off the materials which are eventually self-assembled by some freaky reaction into the ships the Shivans want).

So beam cannons and capship shielding self-assemble?!

[Snail]

Yes, to an extent.

[FreeSpaceFreak]

Then how did we reverse-engineer shielding systems from them? Do GTVA shielding components self-assemble too? And if we can do thàt, why don't we do it with the rest of our stuff? It would certainly speed up our lines of production, and we could even defeat the Shivans with it, so why don't we do it?

[Snail]

Because we did it with normal technology, not with Shivan technology.

Technology was self-assembled but later on it can easily be created, albeit with more difficulty, by normal means. Really what I meant is that the Shivans ships are assembled cell-by-cell, but extremely fast. So a juggernaut would take maybe a month or two to make, while it would take the T/Vs 20 or so years.

[Woolie Wool]

Because we did it with normal technology, not with Shivan technology.

Technology was self-assembled but later on it can easily be created, albeit with more difficulty, by normal means. Really what I meant is that the Shivans ships are assembled cell-by-cell, but extremely fast. So a juggernaut would take maybe a month or two to make, while it would take the T/Vs 20 or so years.

How do you think the Terrans would be able to figure out how to manufacture a technology "grown" like this? You can't reverse-engineer something that uses completely alien engineering. Shivan shields must have been constructed using techniques and materials known to the GTA for them to build their own.

Also, how could you really speed up such a process? Cell growth, with all of its molecular- and atomic-level operations, is always slower than casting or forging.

[Admiral_Stones]

Because we did it with normal technology, not with Shivan technology.

Technology was self-assembled but later on it can easily be created, albeit with more difficulty, by normal means. Really what I meant is that the Shivans ships are assembled cell-by-cell, but extremely fast. So a juggernaut would take maybe a month or two to make, while it would take the T/Vs 20 or so years.

How do you think the Terrans would be able to figure out how to manufacture a technology "grown" like this? You can't reverse-engineer something that uses completely alien engineering. Shivan shields must have been constructed using techniques and materials known to the GTA for them to build their own.

Also, how could you really speed up such a process? Cell growth, with all of its molecular- and atomic-level operations, is always slower than casting or forging.

You know the drill. Command saw that Shivans use biological technology and classified it level ultra-something-hyper-super-mega-Omega.

[Snail]

It's just like normal technology, but it gets put together much faster. Is it so hard to understand?

[FreeSpaceFreak]

Yes. Normal technology is not made out of self-assembling waste. Not even partially. You can keep talking to the contents of a dustbin for 8000 years, but you'll never get a PC out of it.