Poll

What is your favourite capital ship in Freespace 2 (try to pick Shivan and Terran)

Sathanas
Lucifer (Not in the game I know, but it can be placed in FRED)
Orion
Colossus
Leviathan
Ravana
Demon
Rakshasa
Sobek
Hatsheput
Iceni
Cain
Lilith (practically same as cain but oh well)
Hippocrates
Arcadia (more of a base really but still It's a significant installation)
Deimos
Aeolous

Author Topic: Favourite Cap ship  (Read 28025 times)

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Offline TrashMan

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I find it amusing that people are trying to excuse the Ravana from being superior by saying it's superior or the other ships were inferior.

Of course it has better tech, if it hadn't it wouldn't be superior in the first place! You can try as much as you like to come up with excuses such as "If it hadn't got those beams/shields/weapons/whatever, it would be worse/better/whatever.". The technology involved in a ship will also be part of it's design. If it hadn't got those characteristics what would be the point of designing a ship like that? If a Sathanas didn't have beam technology what would be the point of those 4 arms? If the Pegasus didn't have stealth would it even be survivable in battle? Those questions don't and cannot make sense because, like I said before, the technology involved is part of their design. So yes, the Ravana is superior thanks to the technology used in it, which is masterfully put into action as soon as it appears in the theater of war, end of story.

OK Ghostavo..make this little test..

FRED a mission where a Ravana and Orion duke it out.. Run it a few times.. Now add a few more GTVA ships to the fray - a corvette and a cruiser. Go exchange the Orion with a Hecate if it makes you feel any better. Run it again.

Then tell me how many HP is has left (if it's left alive at all).

Purely statisticely, the Ravana is a excellent killing machine, but it's not THAT great. The GTVA fleet was ambushed. That's the only explanation for the defeat.
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Offline Ghostavo

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That's a variation of Alpha 1 Syndrome.

I can FRED the Lucifer taking damage from any weapon in the game. Just because it can be FRED'd doesn't mean it's canon. On the other hand the destruction of most of that fleet at the hands of the Ravana is. Ambushed, took by surprised, whatever makes you feel better, it happened. I've already said, its superior technology is what made that even possible. No other ship in the game could have done that (except possibly the Lucifer which you never encounter and the Sathanas for obvious reasons).

That was the point I was trying to convey. I know it's not perfect, but it's better than the insulting remarks I first found in this thread that it was destroyed just by a corvette and some wings.
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Offline TrashMan

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Nah, it's called COMMON SENSE.

It said that the GTD Delacroix was destroyed and the other ships in the battlegroup damaged.
Exactly how was the Delacroix destroyed? How badly are the other ships damaged?

we don't know, so don't presume your extrapolation that the Ravan pawned them all head on is correct.

It most probably launched a massive fighter/bomber attack to cripple the ships, take out subsystems/turrets or just plain do some damage. With the pitiful sensor range the GTVA had, shivan bombers could pounce right on top of GTVA ships.
and one the ships are busy with the bombers and damaged a bit, the Ravana jumps in from behind and ass-rapes the Delacroix. Other GTVA ships jump away, the ravana never fireing a shot at them, all damage from bombers. A very plausable scenario, no? It also explains why the ravana isn't damaged in the following mission.


Now, a Orion can do the same thing to a ravana - cripple/weaken it with a massed bomber/fighter attack, jump from behind and finish it off. By your logic the Orion is then superior.
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Offline Mars

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It takes out one destroyer and a corvette, not the entire fleet.

It then gets completely destroyed by a corvette and a wing of bombers.

That is canon

 

Offline Ghostavo

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The missions where it appeared it was the GTVA trying to figure out where the bomber and fighter wings were coming from, hence the agressive movements with those two corvettes. One of the corvettes gets fried and the other one immediatly jumps out. Then we see that the fleet is trying to destroy the Ravana and in spite of its efforts the Ravana manages to take out a destroyer. Only after much fighting and casualties does the GTVA manage to destroy it.

Quote
This is Lieutenant Samsa. The allied attack against the SD Ravana has deteriorated. We've lost the GTD Delacroix, and the surviving warships in the battle group are damaged. Petrarch is scrambling the 107th to assist. Command will also sortie the GVC Somtus and the GTC Yakiba. Once they cross the subspace portal, we will move them into position.

As you can see It specifically says that the attack on the Ravana caused the destruction of the destroyer and the damage on the rest of the battle group. It could have been its fighters giving the final blow, it could have been the easter bunny for all I care, the cause for its downfall was the Ravana as stated. No ammount of whinning will change that. And no, the Orion could not do what the Ravana does. Can the Orion destroy a Deimos in seconds? Can the Orion heavily damage the Colossus like the Ravana did in Their Finest Hour? No.
 
TrashMan, answer me this, do you consider the Ravana inferior to any non-shivan destroyer? This is all I'm trying to prove, that the Ravana is superior. The plot certainly says so, so I dunno what you are trying to prove.
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Offline Krallis

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Well, just by looking, Vasudans are built rather similar to Humans.  That would lead you to believe that they operate on the same biological principles that we do.

Apart from the fact they dont appear to have much flesh in the bit of their arms that connect shoulder to elbow. It's like they just have the bones there.
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Offline Colonol Dekker

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That's why they're called aliens :) they're bipedal and have two eyes. Same as most invertibrates. Although the lack of Zod nipple gives out the impression that they don't feed their young on milk.
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Offline Snail

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That's why they're called aliens :) they're bipedal and have two eyes. Same as most invertibrates. Although the lack of Zod nipple gives out the impression that they don't feed their young on milk.

By that logic they don't pee or **** either.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Maybe they sweat it out like that alien from American Dad.
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Offline TrashMan

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As you can see It specifically says that the attack on the Ravana caused the destruction of the destroyer and the damage on the rest of the battle group. It could have been its fighters giving the final blow, it could have been the easter bunny for all I care, the cause for its downfall was the Ravana as stated. No ammount of whinning will change that. And no, the Orion could not do what the Ravana does. Can the Orion destroy a Deimos in seconds? Can the Orion heavily damage the Colossus like the Ravana did in Their Finest Hour? No.
 
TrashMan, answer me this, do you consider the Ravana inferior to any non-shivan destroyer? This is all I'm trying to prove, that the Ravana is superior. The plot certainly says so, so I dunno what you are trying to prove.

What I'm trying to prove is that you're jumping to conclusions.
Ship A destroying ship B from an ambush does NOT prove ships A's superiority in any way, shape of form.

And yes, the Orion can do what the Ravana does.

No, the Ravana didn't heavily damage the Colossuss. It was heavily damage at the start of the mission.
The Collie took it out rather quick every time I played, ravana doing only 5-6% damage or so.
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Offline Jeff Vader

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No, the Ravana didn't heavily damage the Colossuss. It was heavily damage at the start of the mission.
The Collie took it out rather quick every time I played, ravana doing only 5-6% damage or so.
Be that as it may, but nonetheless after taking out the Beast did the CO/comm officer/random dude inform the Command that "The Ravana is going down, but we've sustained critical damage.". Either yet another inconsistency or it was meant storywise that the Beast would cause damage to the Colossus.
23:40 < achillion > EveningTea: ass
23:40 < achillion > wait no
23:40 < achillion > evilbagel: ass
23:40 < EveningTea > ?
23:40 < achillion > 2-letter tab complete failure

14:08 < achillion > there's too much talk of butts and dongs in here
14:08 < achillion > the level of discourse has really plummeted
14:08 < achillion > Let's talk about politics instead
14:08 <@The_E > butts and dongs are part of #hard-light's brand now
14:08 <@The_E > well
14:08 <@The_E > EvilBagel's brand, at least

01:06 < T-Rog > welp
01:07 < T-Rog > I've got to take some very strong antibiotics
01:07 < achillion > penis infection?
01:08 < T-Rog > Chlamydia
01:08 < achillion > O.o
01:09 < achillion > well
01:09 < achillion > I guess that happens
01:09 < T-Rog > at least it's curable
01:09 < achillion > yeah
01:10 < T-Rog > I take it you weren't actually expecting it to be a penis infection
01:10 < achillion > I was not

14:04 < achillion > Sometimes the way to simplify is to just have a habit and not think about it too much
14:05 < achillion > until stuff explodes
14:05 < achillion > then you start thinking about it

22:16 < T-Rog > I don't know how my gf would feel about Jewish conspiracy porn

15:41 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
15:47 < EvilBagel> butt
15:51 < Achillion> yes
15:53 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]

18:53 < Achillion> Dicks are fun

21:41 < MatthTheGeek> you can't spell assassin without two asses

20:05 < sigtau> i'm mining titcoins from now on

00:31 < oldlaptop> Drunken antisocial educated freezing hicks with good Internet == Finland stereotype

11:46 <-INFO > Kobrar [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
11:50 < achtung> Surely you've heard of DVDA
11:50 < achtung> Double Vaginal Double ANal
11:51 < Kobrar> ...
11:51 <-INFO > Kobrar [[email protected]] has left #hard-light []

 
The Colossus was designed to be a super destroyer eliminator a role which it fills very well. I think this is one reason why Sathanas had the label Juggernaught instead of the standard SD like you would of expected. The Colossus being a SD and Jugggie being next class up, instead of the Sathanas being a "very powerful super destroyer"

 

Offline Jeff Vader

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We can also take a look at what 'juggernaut' actually means. Whereas the Collie was meant as an ultimate defensive method against the Shivans, the Sathanas was concidered quite unstoppable due to its forward-facing firepower. If there was something blocking its way, it would merely shoot its way through.
23:40 < achillion > EveningTea: ass
23:40 < achillion > wait no
23:40 < achillion > evilbagel: ass
23:40 < EveningTea > ?
23:40 < achillion > 2-letter tab complete failure

14:08 < achillion > there's too much talk of butts and dongs in here
14:08 < achillion > the level of discourse has really plummeted
14:08 < achillion > Let's talk about politics instead
14:08 <@The_E > butts and dongs are part of #hard-light's brand now
14:08 <@The_E > well
14:08 <@The_E > EvilBagel's brand, at least

01:06 < T-Rog > welp
01:07 < T-Rog > I've got to take some very strong antibiotics
01:07 < achillion > penis infection?
01:08 < T-Rog > Chlamydia
01:08 < achillion > O.o
01:09 < achillion > well
01:09 < achillion > I guess that happens
01:09 < T-Rog > at least it's curable
01:09 < achillion > yeah
01:10 < T-Rog > I take it you weren't actually expecting it to be a penis infection
01:10 < achillion > I was not

14:04 < achillion > Sometimes the way to simplify is to just have a habit and not think about it too much
14:05 < achillion > until stuff explodes
14:05 < achillion > then you start thinking about it

22:16 < T-Rog > I don't know how my gf would feel about Jewish conspiracy porn

15:41 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
15:47 < EvilBagel> butt
15:51 < Achillion> yes
15:53 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]

18:53 < Achillion> Dicks are fun

21:41 < MatthTheGeek> you can't spell assassin without two asses

20:05 < sigtau> i'm mining titcoins from now on

00:31 < oldlaptop> Drunken antisocial educated freezing hicks with good Internet == Finland stereotype

11:46 <-INFO > Kobrar [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
11:50 < achtung> Surely you've heard of DVDA
11:50 < achtung> Double Vaginal Double ANal
11:51 < Kobrar> ...
11:51 <-INFO > Kobrar [[email protected]] has left #hard-light []

 

Offline Ghostavo

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What I'm trying to prove is that you're jumping to conclusions.
Ship A destroying ship B from an ambush does NOT prove ships A's superiority in any way, shape of form.

And yes, the Orion can do what the Ravana does.

No, the Ravana didn't heavily damage the Colossuss. It was heavily damage at the start of the mission.
The Collie took it out rather quick every time I played, ravana doing only 5-6% damage or so.

Stop trying to avoid the question, do you consider the Ravana superior to any non-shivan destroyers or not?

I'm not jumping to conclusions, you are the one who's meandering around the point. Yes, it's fighter and bombers complements could somehow cripple and destroy parts of an entire battlegroup despite said battlegroup already encountering those same fighter and bomber complements (they were searching for their source). Somehow those same complements only began fightning (as opposed to annoy which seems to be their primary function or at least is what you seem to suggest) when the fleet discovered/encountered the Ravana. The Ravana played a pivotal role in the operation in spite of what you may struggle to come up with.

Second, no the Orion cannot do what the Ravana can. As shown by Lobo, the Ravana heavily damaged the Colossus, like it or not, it's in the plot. For the Orion the only mission where it tries to even damage the Colossus it was trying to ram it.

Again, so that you stop trying to avoid the question, do you consider the Ravana superior to any non-shivan destroyers or not?
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Offline Kopachris

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Colossus and Sathanas all the way!  Battle of the titans, oh yeah!
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Offline Snail

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Colossus and Sathanas all the way!  Battle of the titans, oh yeah!

More like battle of the cowboys, it was called High Noon. :P

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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That was just a generic statement. We all know the orion - demon fest is "clash of the titans"
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Offline TrashMan

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Stop trying to avoid the question, do you consider the Ravana superior to any non-shivan destroyers or not?

No.


Quote
I'm not jumping to conclusions, you are the one who's meandering around the point. Yes, it's fighter and bombers complements could somehow cripple and destroy parts of an entire battlegroup despite said battlegroup already encountering those same fighter and bomber complements (they were searching for their source). Somehow those same complements only began fightning (as opposed to annoy which seems to be their primary function or at least is what you seem to suggest) when the fleet discovered/encountered the Ravana. The Ravana played a pivotal role in the operation in spite of what you may struggle to come up with.

Second, no the Orion cannot do what the Ravana can. As shown by Lobo, the Ravana heavily damaged the Colossus, like it or not, it's in the plot. For the Orion the only mission where it tries to even damage the Colossus it was trying to ram it.

And again, you're making conclusions without knowing how the battle played out.
If the Ravana attacked the Orion from the rear, in a surprise ambush explain to me how that proves a superiority of a ship class.

And yes, the Orion can do what a ravana can.. Go ahead, FRED a mission with some fighters attacking the Ravana and then a while later a Orion jumping out behind it in optimal fireing position. The Ravan would be lucky to get a shot off before dying.

And for your information the NTD Repulse did more damage to the Collie than the Ravana did.. the Collie lost around 10-20% of his HP in that mission every time I played it.
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Offline Ghostavo

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Stop trying to avoid the question, do you consider the Ravana superior to any non-shivan destroyers or not?

No.

Was that so hard to answer?

Quote
Quote
I'm not jumping to conclusions, you are the one who's meandering around the point. Yes, it's fighter and bombers complements could somehow cripple and destroy parts of an entire battlegroup despite said battlegroup already encountering those same fighter and bomber complements (they were searching for their source). Somehow those same complements only began fightning (as opposed to annoy which seems to be their primary function or at least is what you seem to suggest) when the fleet discovered/encountered the Ravana. The Ravana played a pivotal role in the operation in spite of what you may struggle to come up with.

Second, no the Orion cannot do what the Ravana can. As shown by Lobo, the Ravana heavily damaged the Colossus, like it or not, it's in the plot. For the Orion the only mission where it tries to even damage the Colossus it was trying to ram it.

And again, you're making conclusions without knowing how the battle played out.
If the Ravana attacked the Orion from the rear, in a surprise ambush explain to me how that proves a superiority of a ship class.

And yes, the Orion can do what a ravana can.. Go ahead, FRED a mission with some fighters attacking the Ravana and then a while later a Orion jumping out behind it in optimal fireing position. The Ravan would be lucky to get a shot off before dying.

And for your information the NTD Repulse did more damage to the Collie than the Ravana did.. the Collie lost around 10-20% of his HP in that mission every time I played it.

No, you are the one making wild speculations. You are the one repeatedly saying the Ravana ambushed the destroyer. You are the one repeatedly saying the fighters and bombers did most of the work despite of their presence even before the Ravana revealed itself. I'm not the one making conclusions, you are.
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Offline Colonol Dekker

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This discussion is like a broken pencil. What's your favourite? Not what's wrong/right with the Ravanna. (Especially when the demons superior lol)
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