[Snail]

I still think Star Wars is ridiculously overpowered. For the sake of this fan fiction, at least make them less outrageously powerful.

[chief1983]

Apparently I'm the first one with a SW badge to feel like commenting on this

I haven't read the fic yet, I plan to though.  However, comments like beams pierce shields just sound incredibly stupid to apply to SW.  Sure, a beam generated by a massive capital ship powerplant in any universe is probably capable of ripping through a measly fighter's shielding.  However, FS capships don't even have shields, and their armor alone can take quite a few beam shots.  I think it's safe to say that any capship with an energy shield, would be significantly stronger than that which could be equipped on snub fighters.  Using the Death Star as a reference for a beam piercing a shield is equally ludicrous, to assume that FS ship beams are anything close to a beam which can detonate a planet means that any FS cruiser should have the destructive power of 10 Lucifers.  So, for the majority of capship beams, I have to imagine that a large Star Wars ship could absorb quite a bit in the shields, from the entirety of a smaller beam to a good chunk of the biggest beams.  I do understand they wouldn't be invulnerable, and that a good pounding should inflict severe hull damage to even an ISD or MC80.  The only other thing then, is how quickly could 100 dual/quad turbolasers melt through a FS destroyer's hull?  Without shields, a constant barrage of turbolasers would make fairly quick work of even an Orion or a Hecate, disregarding the pounding the SW ship would be getting from the beams in the process.  All in all, I think it should be a fairly close fight, and that a captain's tactics would be the deciding factor in a fight.  I don't think either one has an insurmountable technological edge over the other.  It's probably much closer than Ori vs Jaffa

[Stormkeeper]

Tactics are everything in combat ... perhaps even more so in space. I'd give the edge to the Orion crew that pulls off the Keyes Loop against an ISD.

[ShadowGorrath]

I should have kept fredding an INFR2 mission instead of coming back to read this...

Um, when will part 2 of the story be posted ? As much as I hate FS being weaker here, I still want to read it through.

[Spicious]

Star Wars was designed to represent a galaxy of pissed off people going around killing each other for some absurdly long period of time. This pretty much forces it to be the victor in any versus (which abbreviates to vs. incidentally) style thing.

[ShadowGorrath]

Actually, it can't beat my sci-fi universe, so I don't care 

[Snail]

Actually, it can't beat my sci-fi universe, so I don't care 

Huh?

BTW - Daleks ruuuuuuuule

[chief1983]

Star Wars _is_ a galaxy that has been at war for ages, however they are technologically stagnant.   Dreadnaughts are still effective warships after a millenia goes by.  How else can you explain that?  For some reason the universe never really advances their technology all that dramatically, due to a stupid lack of imagination on the part of the Expanded Universe authors.  Really dreadnaughts shouldn't have been used for nearly as long, and noticeable technological advances should have been possible.  Other explanations are that there have been recessions in technology that prevented them from ever advancing past a certain point, but I'm not sure how well those could just be stuck in the timeline.

My point is just that the technology in the Star Wars universe advances at a ridiculously slow pace over all time.

[General Battuta]

Tactics are everything in combat ... perhaps even more so in space. I'd give the edge to the Orion crew that pulls off the Keyes Loop against an ISD.

The reason the Keyes Loop works is because Covenant plasma torpedoes are self-guiding.

You can't pull off a Keyes Loop against a ship armed primarily with direct-fire turbolasers.

You might try it on a Victory-type, with all the concussion missiles, but they probably have safeguards or remote-destruct capability.

Also, an Orion is way too slow to pull off a Keyes Loop even against a Covenant ship.

[Fenrir]

I should have kept fredding an INFR2 mission instead of coming back to read this...

Um, when will part 2 of the story be posted ? As much as I hate FS being weaker here, I still want to read it through.

So do I. I can understand that FS is weaker... Alpha 1 hasn`t even entered the fight yet. >_>

[WeatherOp]

I think as said earlier, SW tie fighters/bombers would be a significant dis-advantage when attacking FS2 ships, if we let all things be equal, flak can shread you fast if your shields are down, and tie fights flying in formation like they do in the movies, would be mowed down by flak far before they could get close to release their bombs. While FS2 fighters/bombers would have a pretty good advantage against Imperial SD's if you count their strength about the same as an X-wing except with much more proton torpedoes.

I think a Rebel vs FS2 fight would be much more fair in comparison.

[Stormkeeper]

Tactics are everything in combat ... perhaps even more so in space. I'd give the edge to the Orion crew that pulls off the Keyes Loop against an ISD.

The reason the Keyes Loop works is because Covenant plasma torpedoes are self-guiding.

You can't pull off a Keyes Loop against a ship armed primarily with direct-fire turbolasers.

You might try it on a Victory-type, with all the concussion missiles, but they probably have safeguards or remote-destruct capability.

Also, an Orion is way too slow to pull off a Keyes Loop even against a Covenant ship.

Yea, I know that. I meant it as a joke. Everyone knows that FS2 destroyers are too slow too pull off a Keyes Loop.

[General Battuta]

Oh, okay. Cool.

[NGTM-1R]

Actually, this is silly. FS isn't weaker. It's more limited, I'll give it that, but FS ships have absurd damage output and resistance to damage at the cost of having rather less engagement range (which may or may not be nullified by subspace jumps).

From Empire Strikes Back we know that the output of an Imperial Star Destroyer firing a decent number of its weapons is somewhere in the multi-kiloton range. ('cuz they were shooting asteroids.) That means a single-fire volley of Hornets (12kt a missile at four missiles a single-fire launch) can probably beat an ISD firing maybe a quarter of its guns.

A Harbinger at 5000Mt frankly ought to vaporize an ISD outright by those standards. Getting hit by a beam cannon, even an SRed, should be a cause for serious friggin' concern to an ImpStar, and perhaps blow lesser ships like a Corellian Corvette or Carrack in half.

[Uchuujinsan]

Still?

The ISD is of rather recent design, it's not already used for millenia or so. Actually, you can almost count it as outdated. AFAIK they're being replaced by Imperial-II SDs, if we are going to use the Movie's ships. Which is bad. Because an Imperial-II has eight frickin' octuple turbolaser batteries on each side, one 500 gigaton shot means calculated 320000 k damage, multiplicated with eight you have the damage of one turret fired all-out: 2 560 000!
Again multiplicated with four, you get a full broadside: A colossal 10 240 000. Enough damage to kill ten Collosi/Sathanai with one broadside. A single turret will do though.

Where do you get that 500 gigaton value from?

According to http://www.stardestroyer.net/tlc/Power/index.html an ISD has 1.9 Gigatons per second - all weapons included. Ok you, you are talking about an ISD II, but strengthening by a factor of over 5 Million? Not really.

I also want to add, that we all know that SciFi writers have no sense of scale, so basically any numbers given are in most cases just plain stupid :> (for fs as well as SW)

[NGTM-1R]

According to http://www.stardestroyer.net/tlc/Power/index.html an ISD has 1.9 Gigatons per second - all weapons included. Ok you, you are talking about an ISD II, but strengthening by a factor of over 5 Million? Not really.

It's worth noting that that very site is actually misinterpreting the place were I got the kiloton figure from, but still lists it as support. It's also using figures it's really just making up, or at the very least assuming the targets to be solid nickle-iron, which is damn stupid since they could be carbonaceaous types.

[Spicious]

Maybe you should detail how you got that figure rather than just saying "my number is right!"

I like your "we know". It's a nice way of implying that we should all obviously agree with you with the minimum of evidence.

[NGTM-1R]

Hmm, looks like SD.net actually cleaned up their article to eliminate the inconvenient physics questions actually. Pity.

However yes we do know, because this is not the first time the firepower of an ISD has been discussed on this board, and the proponents of the ridiculous gigatons a second firepower have been beaten down with hard fact before.


Reference...well let's see.

The whole damn thread referenced below.
This post: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,30607.msg629131.html#msg629131
This post: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,30607.msg628481.html#msg628481
This post: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,30607.msg629489.html#msg629489
The whole damn thread referenced below again.
This post: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,13735.msg259738.html#msg259738
This post: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,13735.msg260183.html#msg260183

[Spicious]

If you're just going to throw links at it, I choose SD.net. Stalemate

But, if you're going to bring evidence into play, I have no real reason to argue with you. Maybe I should switch over to making random assertions instead.

[Stormkeeper]

Actually in this thread, and the other thread, no one will really win.