Author Topic: cruisers vs destoryers  (Read 15554 times)

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Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Which moves slower than an Ostrich
Hey, an ostrich can run.

:drevil:

You meant a snail, Mars?
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Quote: Wednesday, 6 November 2019, 1845hrs UTC, #gaming
The_E
behold the power of this fully armed and operational recluse

z64555
but does it destroy planets with a turbo laser

 

Offline Commander Zane

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Actually, an Aeolus at full speed can outrun an Ares with no power diverted to engines.
But why would you do that? :lol:

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Just making a point, Zane. ;)
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Quote: Wednesday, 6 November 2019, 1845hrs UTC, #gaming
The_E
behold the power of this fully armed and operational recluse

z64555
but does it destroy planets with a turbo laser

 
Except Star Destroyers in Star Wars fulfill the destroyer role, unlike destroyers in Freespace.  Think about what we see them doing:  Chasing down freighters and corvettes during naval patrol duties (a destroyer's job) and  escorting battleships (also a destroyer's job).  We don't see them in line engagements except when they're forced into them, and

       That argument might hold water except that it's not an Imperial Battleship it's a "Super Star Destroyer". So even if the ISD fills the Destroyer's role, why then is the Executor and others of her class also referred to as Destroyers? Does the Star Destroyer perform that role because that's what she's made to do? Or does she perform it because nothing else will. Expanded Universe aside, the Star Destroyer and the Super Star Destroyer are the only two ships we see in the fleet. Minor variations aside.

       It should be noted, that in EpIV Han Solo originally calls the two destroyers over Tatooine roughly "Imperial Cruisers" (or maybe there was just one, but, same idea).  As far as I know "Star Destroyer" only came into being for EpV. Or maybe Han said Star Cruisers . . . but same idea, Cruiser not Destroyer.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2008, 05:13:25 am by Akalabeth Angel »

 
there were 2 and he did call them imperial cruisers.

I think the label "destroyer" is way over used in sci-fi all together. It does sound more fearsome than "cruiser" but as i stated in the OP, modern day naval ships are the reverse of what most sci-fi classifications are.

 

Offline Commander Zane

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Offline Mars

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You meant a snail, Mars?

No, I mean that an Aeolus moves at roughly the same speed as an Ostrich . . . literally.

 
Except Star Destroyers in Star Wars fulfill the destroyer role, unlike destroyers in Freespace.  Think about what we see them doing:  Chasing down freighters and corvettes during naval patrol duties (a destroyer's job) and  escorting battleships (also a destroyer's job).  We don't see them in line engagements except when they're forced into them, and

       That argument might hold water except that it's not an Imperial Battleship it's a "Super Star Destroyer". So even if the ISD fills the Destroyer's role, why then is the Executor and others of her class also referred to as Destroyers? Does the Star Destroyer perform that role because that's what she's made to do? Or does she perform it because nothing else will. Expanded Universe aside, the Star Destroyer and the Super Star Destroyer are the only two ships we see in the fleet. Minor variations aside.

       It should be noted, that in EpIV Han Solo originally calls the two destroyers over Tatooine roughly "Imperial Cruisers" (or maybe there was just one, but, same idea).  As far as I know "Star Destroyer" only came into being for EpV. Or maybe Han said Star Cruisers . . . but same idea, Cruiser not Destroyer.
Another thing to remember is that the term "Destroyer" as applied to an ISD is simply a name, not a class designation. The original designation was Imperator Cruiser, which morphed into the most commonly accepted Imperator-class Star Destoyer. Fans, over the years, have generally applied the class name "Star Destroyer" to any triangular shaped warship, such as the Victory Star Destroyer. Even then, Star Wars is a really bad example to compare to. It doesn't follow any "normal" class designations anyway. Ship class designations in Star Wars tend to be at the whim of the manufacturers.

 
       That argument might hold water except that it's not an Imperial Battleship it's a "Super Star Destroyer". So even if the ISD fills the Destroyer's role, why then is the Executor and others of her class also referred to as Destroyers? Does the Star Destroyer perform that role because that's what she's made to do? Or does she perform it because nothing else will. Expanded Universe aside, the Star Destroyer and the Super Star Destroyer are the only two ships we see in the fleet. Minor variations aside.
The term "Super Star Destroyer" was used exactly once, as part of a shouted order in the heat of battle.  It is more often referred to as a "command ship" in the movies.  

And you don't have to go so far as the EU to find warships other than those two in the Imperial fleet; there are other classes mentioned during the Battle of Endor in the novelization of Return of the Jedi.  
       It should be noted, that in EpIV Han Solo originally calls the two destroyers over Tatooine roughly "Imperial Cruisers" (or maybe there was just one, but, same idea).  As far as I know "Star Destroyer" only came into being for EpV. Or maybe Han said Star Cruisers . . . but same idea, Cruiser not Destroyer.
There were three, actually.  He said "Looks like an Imperial cruiser," after taking a brief glance down at his controls.  Given what we know of the Falcon's control panel and it's near-total lack of screens suitable for displaying detailed targeting information, it's highly unlikely that he had the exact class and designation right there, and "cruiser" is a safe thing to call any given capital ship if you're not being technical.  
"Courage is the complement of fear.  A fearless man cannot be courageous.  He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein

 

Offline Mars

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I don't think a cruiser was ever considered a capital ship. At least not since sail days.

 

Offline chief1983

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True, but in most space games it's anything big enough they won't let you fly it.  Save for freighters anyway.
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actually, in star wars, anything bigger then a corvette is a cruiser. as in mon calamari cruiser.
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       That argument might hold water except that it's not an Imperial Battleship it's a "Super Star Destroyer". So even if the ISD fills the Destroyer's role, why then is the Executor and others of her class also referred to as Destroyers? Does the Star Destroyer perform that role because that's what she's made to do? Or does she perform it because nothing else will. Expanded Universe aside, the Star Destroyer and the Super Star Destroyer are the only two ships we see in the fleet. Minor variations aside.
The term "Super Star Destroyer" was used exactly once, as part of a shouted order in the heat of battle.  It is more often referred to as a "command ship" in the movies.  
[/quote]

     Quantity does not outweigh quality.
     It's referred to as a "Super Star Destroyer" exactly once by Admiral Ackbar, who as the military commander of the entire Rebel fleet should know a little about the Imperial navy. And it's referred to as Command ship, by whom . . . Luke Skywalker? Han Solo? A bunch of people who've got virtually nothing to do with the military. And yeah, I know Solo is a "General". But in addition, in the heat of battle isn't it easier to say Command Ship? It's certainly got less syllables that "SSD" and if you're desperate to get something done you go for brevity.

Even then, Star Wars is a really bad example to compare to. It doesn't follow any "normal" class designations anyway. Ship class designations in Star Wars tend to be at the whim of the manufacturers.

       Well then Babylon 5 is another example then. We have "Earth Force Destroyer" which Ivanova says when the Churchill jumps in during Severed Dreams. And we have a much smaller ship, the "Hyperion Heavy Cruiser" which Londo referrs to as a "Heavy Cruiser" during A Voice Cried out in the Wilderness. The Destroyer is far larger than the Heavy Cruiser.

 
The term "Super Star Destroyer" was used exactly once, as part of a shouted order in the heat of battle.  It is more often referred to as a "command ship" in the movies.  

     Quantity does not outweigh quality.
     It's referred to as a "Super Star Destroyer" exactly once by Admiral Ackbar, who as the military commander of the entire Rebel fleet should know a little about the Imperial navy. And it's referred to as Command ship, by whom . . . Luke Skywalker? Han Solo?
Darth Vader, Emperor Palpatine (repeatedly)... 

Not like they'd know anything about their own forces.   :p
"Courage is the complement of fear.  A fearless man cannot be courageous.  He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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No, I mean that an Aeolus moves at roughly the same speed as an Ostrich . . . literally.

Good to know. :nod:

Capital ships are ships with important people on board, I think. Cruisers don't usually qualify unless if a VIP is on board.
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Quote: Wednesday, 6 November 2019, 1845hrs UTC, #gaming
The_E
behold the power of this fully armed and operational recluse

z64555
but does it destroy planets with a turbo laser

 

Offline eliex

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Then my Pegasus is a capital ship. I'm in it!

 . . . I'm important . . . right?  :nervous:

 

Offline Commander Zane

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       Well then Babylon 5 is another example then. We have "Earth Force Destroyer" which Ivanova says when the Churchill jumps in during Severed Dreams. And we have a much smaller ship, the "Hyperion Heavy Cruiser" which Londo referrs to as a "Heavy Cruiser" during A Voice Cried out in the Wilderness. The Destroyer is far larger than the Heavy Cruiser.
And the Omega is exactly like the Orion or Hecate, main-line combat ship with fighter carrying capability.

 
       Well then Babylon 5 is another example then. We have "Earth Force Destroyer" which Ivanova says when the Churchill jumps in during Severed Dreams. And we have a much smaller ship, the "Hyperion Heavy Cruiser" which Londo referrs to as a "Heavy Cruiser" during A Voice Cried out in the Wilderness. The Destroyer is far larger than the Heavy Cruiser.
B5 is actually fairly consistent when compared to SW. In B5, all races have ships dubbed "destroyer-class" that perform the same role with each race -the Omega and the Shar'lin both do the same thing for the Humans and the Minbari. Likewise, (generally) all of the races cruisers all perform the same functions with each race.

Personally, I think a much better study of the class names as they apply to science fiction is the Games Workshop game Battlefleet Gothic. Destroyers are actually the smallest warships in the game, with battleships being the largest.

 

Offline General Battuta

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No, I mean that an Aeolus moves at roughly the same speed as an Ostrich . . . literally.

Good to know. :nod:

Capital ships are ships with important people on board, I think. Cruisers don't usually qualify unless if a VIP is on board.

No, it doesn't have to do with who's on board. It's an understandable interpretation, but it's wrong.

 

Offline Commander Zane

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B5 is actually fairly consistent when compared to SW. In B5, all races have ships dubbed "destroyer-class" that perform the same role with each race -the Omega and the Shar'lin both do the same thing for the Humans and the Minbari. Likewise, (generally) all of the races cruisers all perform the same functions with each race.
Actually even on the show itself they call the Sharlins War Cruisers.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2008, 10:02:31 pm by Commander Zane »