Author Topic: cruisers vs destoryers  (Read 15629 times)

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Offline MarkN

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A Frigate such as the Iceni (which always seems to be either running or blasting through blockades) is probably designed for short, intense combat situations. In this situation, reserve power (batteries) can give it an initial capability greater than a similarly sized ship designed for fleet combat (such as a Deimos). After a few weapons' exchanges, however, it is likely to run out of battery power and either use less weapons or use them as a lower level, and be inferior to the fleet combat ship (as the batteries are wasted space by this time in the battle).

As for ship class names, Star Wars has a lot to answer for, but ship type naming in space would have to be different, as the average size change with time would be likely to be much larger (although modern destroyers are larger than WWII cruisers so that effect occur on earth as well.)

 

Offline S-99

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:nod:

Still, I wonder what kind of power plant does the Iceni have. How is it possible for something slightly larger than a Deimos to mount such powerful beam cannons and ETAK in the same ship?
I'd say he obviously has plenty of emergency power given the way his ship is designed with lots of redundancies in case of any one failure. Idk, he could very easily be using a deimos or an orion power plant. The size of his ship seems plausible he could have either one. What suggests an orion power supply? Fast fast frigate dishing out orion like whoopass.
In my head it seems like either power supply could get the job done (might as well toss in the list vasudan corvette power supply...we all know the zods make more efficient power supply's).

I don't think it's about how much power the iceni it needs as much as how it uses it. I'd be betting that it uses a modified corvette power supply. Or, maybe like the rest of the ship, a custom build power supply.
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Offline Eishtmo

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Like my friends above said, an Orion and the Iceni were designed for vastly different roles.  An Orion is supposed to plant itself in a system and run combat operations throughout for weeks, or even months at a time.  The Iceni was basically built for a one way trip.
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Offline eliex

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I don't think that the Iceni was even meant to be in combat zones anyway as it would be just one big fire/capture magnet.

The 3 BGreens perhaps were just added to quickly destroy enemy before it could alert their friends to the Iceni.

 

Offline Droid803

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It's not meant to stick around in combat zones. It is meant to make a mad dash through one, blasting a few things that may try to attack it. This goes together very well with the Terran beams weapons, which have a long reload, but high single-burst damage.
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Offline eliex

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 . . . definitely not the SGreen surely?  ;)

 

Offline AlphaOne

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Regarding the powersupply i bet it uses some sort of modified or brand new sistem that was already existent but was deemed to expensive to mount on a Corvette.

As for its role well the Iceni is IDEAL for the kind of threaths the GTVA faces and the kind of war it has with the shivans.

I mean think about it. The GTVA is usualy playng catchup with the shivans and on some ocasions it tries to rush from one place to the other to blocade or pick off vulnerable targets.

That means you need fast ships with massive firepower to boot. That leaves out the Hecate and the Orion.

The Hecate because of its crappy beam cannons. And the Orion because of its low speed.


That means you only have the Hattie and the Deimos to boot. Both of them are fast and can take out enemy fighter wings . However moving a destroyer is not as easy as moving a Deimos. So the Deimos will most likely be the best choice right??

Wrong !!! The deimos is good but suffers from the same crappy slasher beams . So you have to get the Sobek. Even then The Sobek is vulnerable because of its 2 beams even if they are supperior to the Deimos.

And they take a lot of time to take out an enemy capship such as a Demon or Ravana.

Then you have the Iceni with 3 mind you 3 BGreens mounted in a forward firing ark for offensive purposes. Add to the Iceni 2 bommber wings and 1 fighter wing or perhaps 3 heavy fighter wings And you have yourself one toasted Shivan capship.

I mean it has the firepower and the HP of a destroyer but much better speed and flexibilaty .

The Iceni would fill in a gap in the GTVA arsenal. I mean you wont have to move the big arse distroyer from one end o the GTVA space to the other.

And you have the Sobek and the Deimos plus the Hecate and the Hattie and the Orion as a simbol of pride and strenght. Not to mention the Orion can still kick arse even better then the Hecate.
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Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Like my friends above said, an Orion and the Iceni were designed for vastly different roles.  An Orion is supposed to plant itself in a system and run combat operations throughout for weeks, or even months at a time.  The Iceni was basically built for a one way trip.

I was thinking that the Iceni was the one that had more reserve power. Keep in mind that it was encased inside the NTF Boadicea, which is an installation.
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Offline Rodo

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Wasn't the Iceni carrying the ETAK project inside also?? I would think that the Iceni is a total separated development, so It might not usefull for comparisons.
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Offline AlphaOne

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Yeah well the fact that the Iceni caried the ETAK doesnt mean it was meant to be part of the original design.

Also there are some......issues regarding the Iceni origins. Wheather it was a GTVA project or an NTF project.

However what we do know is that Bosch was named to be supervisor of the project and that Bosch STOLE the Iceni from the shipyards when he rebelled. However we can not prove that the Iceni was in fact a GTVA design or project or whatever but the circumstacial evidente points to it and not the other way around.
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Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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I used to think that the Iceni was supposed to be a larger Deimos. :nervous:
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Offline AlphaOne

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From what i could gather form the canonc evidence provided the Iceni was suposed to be some sort of in between ship !


A ship that could go in and pond away like a destroyer could but faster . And would usually benefit from a few wings of fighter/bombers from a destroyer 1 sistem away or in sistem just some other place. Since a destroyer is much more expensive and a much more difficult ship to replace.

Basicly they wanted some sort of destroyer without the fighterbay . So the Iceni fits that role.
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Offline Mars

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So essentially a Deimos is a standard ship you throw into combat, take out cruisers, ect. and the Iceni is designed to run blockades.

 

Offline AlphaOne

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Not just run blockades. How should i say this. Sure the ship is perfect to run blockades but it can also dish out dammage in a battle. Basicly the corvettes are for all intents and purposes suposed to be as numerous if nor more numerous then the cruisers. while destroyers would still be the mother of all space warships they would not be sent head in to engage enemy capships. They are too big too cumbersome. Instead the Iceni would be used for that role.

Not Iceni bosch has but the Iceni in its original intent.

Whiel you would see destroyers engaging enemy capships from time to time they are there to be put to use in the most dangerous sectors of the battlefield.

I believe that the Hecate was designed with the Iceni class so to speak in mind. If you notice the Hecate is much more of a C&C carrier/warship then its much more powerfull counterparts the Hattie and the Orion.

Basicly that is why i believe they decided to phase out the Orion . too big too slow an too vulnerable to enemy attack's by fighter's and bombers and even capships. The Iceni so to speak i bet has  much less crew then a destroyer . Not to mention it would be a lot cheaper even if it is brand new and with the most advanced tech available. It would still not be able to reach the same cost as a destroyer.


Just imagine for every destroyer the GTVA has at least 1 or 2 Iceni's out there with Deimos and Sobek's dishing out damage with the destroyer further back providing C&C and fighter/bomber wigs as required.

and if the battle got too hot you would just send in the destroyer personaly to help out . But i believe that 3 BGreens plus an aditional 4 slasher at least would be able to make short work of anithing smaller the SD class.

Also i believe that the Vasudans would of suerely got theyr own version of the Iceni eventualy if they were not in fact working on it already at the time of the NTF rebellion.
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Offline Snail

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That is possible, but I think the high costs for constructing a large amount of Icenis wouldn't be worth it. The amount of technology and resources that goes into creating a small ship with the amount weaponry, armor and engine power that the Iceni possesses probably means that creating one might be just as strenuous as creating a destroyer or several corvettes.

I think it would be more feasible for the GTVA to just create more Hecates and Orions - Fighters and bombers are the main combatants in FreeSpace, so creating a ship capable of ferrying them around would be more efficient than creating one small pocket destroyer that can't really do that much save for run around and escape.

You also have to take into account that the Iceni isn't really much good in a defensive sort of position. Sure it has a lot of firepower, but before long you'd soon see that having more fighters and bombers would be more effective in creating a better defense of a Jump Node or installation. The Iceni is more fitted to running away and offensive missions - Perhaps SOC mission strikes deep into enemy territory, much like the GTFf Saphah of Derelict.

Really, I can't see a widespread creation of Iceni like vessels for the GTVA, at least not in the numbers you're suggesting. If they were created, IMO they'd be used as a rare forward-attack craft for strategic assault missions in conjunction with a few heavy fighters like the Ares or Erinyes. I don't think Icenis would be used in a large, numerous support role due to large construction costs as well as its inability to really do that much good in defensive missions.

 

Offline AlphaOne

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Hmm i see your point!


However i believe that destroyer fully armed and manned would be less then half the price of an Iceni.

And while i agree that its usage is limited to perhaps 50-60% or the operations GTVA has to conduct it is much safer to haveb a ship such as the Iceni then a full blown destroyer dont you agree?

Also i bel;iev that if used properly an Iceni class could in theory provide much more adequate protection to a node (meaning blocade it ) then lets say a destroyer or just corvettes and bommbers etc.

I do agree that you need to have fighter/bomber present almost everywhere. But with the Advent of fighters such as the Aries and the Erynies a ships such as the Iceni suddenly becomes a whole lot more needed then it used to.

Also we do see the GTVA lately mounting increasing offensive operations in nature. I mean it has to mount such operations or it would be eaten alive by the shivans. they have to force the shivans back with something. And the Iceni would be just the ship for such a fight.

Also while i honestly do not believe the Iceni to house such a massive instalation for the ETAK i do believ it to be somewhat big and would require a bit of space in the ship.

If i am correct then i would corectly assume that the space needed for the ETAK was taken from Weapons and such. That would mean that the Iceni would in theory be able to house at least 2 or 3 more aaaf weapons such as a aaaf beam and perhaps a flack or 2 even a missile laucnher that would increase its aaaf capabilaties by a LOT!
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Offline Stormkeeper

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To be honest, the Iceni's build made me think that it was meant for a hunter-killer role, because she's fast and has a large enough punch to threaten most destroyers. And if she was mass-produced, I doubt every Iceni would carry ETAK, which would take up considerable space, nor would we see them in Fenris/Leviathian numbers. Maybe about 30 Icenis, tops, spread throughout the entire GTVA. The Iceni would be a most capable hunter seeker.
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Offline Polpolion

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I kinda think that the Iceni was built with the budget disregarded. Even without ETAK, it'd be insanely expensive compared to most destroyers.

 

Offline eliex

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Well it is Bosch's ship and the flagship of the NTF so I'd say it is a one of a kind ship.

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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The Iceni must definitely be expensive to produce, though. It uses the same grade of armour plating as the GTF Ares. ;)
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