[Snail]

Can we please get the old one converted?

[Hellstryker]

The old one isn't gone. I have it. Need to redo the back though (Still has that weird old flat one)

[Droid803]

The old one please? That one was different, and there would certainly have been use in mods as an Orion Variant even if it didn't make it into the MVPs.

[blowfish]

Can we please get the old one converted?

You willing to UV and texture it?  Because there will be no POF until that is done...

[Mongoose]

I vote for screwing the first one and telling the man to keep doing what he's doing.

[Raven2001]

Interestingly enough no one likes this idea...

Well, the human being has a tendency of never being happy with what he is given

[ARSPR]

The old one isn't gone. I have it. Need to redo the back though (Still has that weird old flat one)

STOP guys, don't create another TBP-ish issue here...

If SPECTRE87 wants to kill his very first model, don't use it anymore please. If he allows the community to continue working over it, then you can do as you want. It's just a politeness issue.

@SPECTRE87: Nevertheless I also prefer your very first model. As I said in a previous post, I would just do the following thing:

• Keep it just as it was for an Orion Mk II model to be used in any new mod or campaign.
• Make another copy modifying its turret array so it matches original FS1/FS2 model. This model would become "canon" in future MediaVPs releases. Remember that there were no complaints about your original design. Nearly everyone posted that it was great. The only comment you got was that it wasn't a canon Orion because of its turrets. This "small" issue does not allow using it as a standard hi-res version in FS2.

[General Battuta]

Right, SPECTRE, it sounds like we can use that old model just fine with a few turrets removed (to match the original Orion's turret loadout.)

Would that be acceptable?

[SPECTRE87]

To be honest, after I've now been able to base a model on the original, I really loath my first attempt... I really can't see why people would prefer it over the original, HTL, or my third try...

[SypheDMar]

I like your third. It might not be as detailed as the one in the MediaVP, but if it's closer to the original, then surely it would be a more suitable replacement.  So I agree with Mongoose.

[SPECTRE87]

Thanks. While it's not as "detailed" as the current HTL it is more effectively built (the model, that is), and more closely based on the original version, and it will properly eat up less memory too as a result... But it's up to the crew.

[FoxtrotTango]

To be honest, after I've now been able to base a model on the original, I really loath my first attempt... I really can't see why people would prefer it over the original, HTL, or my third try...

Why do you despise your initial iteration? It turned out to be a board favorite and people like the look of it because it's not shackled to its predecessor. This makes it an independent redesign of the Orion model. There's a lot of potential inside of it, you just don't wish to recognize it because you'd prefer to stay inside the lines. That's fine with us, but don't torch the old model out of spite. Hand it to someone else to refine and restore, that this concept may not die out with your disinterest.

Who knows? It may end up being a worthy successor to the original in future campaigns. Let's not allow it to go to waste.

[Hellstryker]

The old one isn't gone. I have it. Need to redo the back though (Still has that weird old flat one)

STOP guys, don't create another TBP-ish issue here...

If SPECTRE87 wants to kill his very first model, don't use it anymore please. If he allows the community to continue working over it, then you can do as you want. It's just a politeness issue.

@SPECTRE87: Nevertheless I also prefer your very first model. As I said in a previous post, I would just do the following thing:

• Keep it just as it was for an Orion Mk II model to be used in any new mod or campaign.
• Make another copy modifying its turret array so it matches original FS1/FS2 model. This model would become "canon" in future MediaVPs releases. Remember that there were no complaints about your original design. Nearly everyone posted that it was great. The only comment you got was that it wasn't a canon Orion because of its turrets. This "small" issue does not allow using it as a standard hi-res version in FS2.

TBPish issue? This isn't a total conversion, It's a single model. If he wants to keep doing what he's doing, that's all fine and dandy, but most people seem to prefer the original. I'll just nix the extra turrets and convert it to 3ds for someone, and he can keep doing what he likes. 

[Vasudan Admiral]

Ok people, a few things:

1) Even if you don't personally like a model, you should NEVER simply dismiss it out of hand as I have seen in this thread (and other recent ones) several times. Unless you have built something of similar complexity you probably have no idea of the effort that gets put into these ships, and so you probably have no idea of how disrespectful or even hurtful your comments may be to the creator.

2) If you do have a gripe about a model, you are obviously free to voice your opinions, but do so via CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Stemming from point 1, there are few things I hate more than seeing someone posting a ship they've spent hours upon hours building, only for someone to reply with "I don't like it. ". Point out what works, what doesn't but whatever you say; do your best to say why, and do it all politely. Respect their work and they are far more likely to implement your suggestions.

3) ESPECIALLY just after the whole TBP debacle I would have thought people would be more cautious regarding the use of other peoples work and that person's wishes about that work. If you would like to continue work on a model that the creator has restarted work on, you ask permission. As I see it here, Spectre has restarted the model - demonstrating some very impressive modelling and high quality standards in the process I might add, only for some people to go 'Meh. We like the old one better so we're going to continue that one.' That does not at all sound like the spirit under which HLP was founded. Not to mention that you haven't seen the new one finished yet so no matter how it might turn out, even your opinion that the old one was better is a premature one.


So, with that I'd like to apologise to Spectre and Bobboau for the treatment of their work by some, and I hope you'll continue. I for one would love to see more.

[Hellstryker]

Ok people, a few things:

1) Even if you don't personally like a model, you should NEVER simply dismiss it out of hand as I have seen in this thread (and other recent ones) several times. Unless you have built something of similar complexity you probably have no idea of the effort that gets put into these ships, and so you probably have no idea of how disrespectful or even hurtful your comments may be to the creator.

2) If you do have a gripe about a model, you are obviously free to voice your opinions, but do so via CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Stemming from point 1, there are few things I hate more than seeing someone posting a ship they've spent hours upon hours building, only for someone to reply with "I don't like it. ". Point out what works, what doesn't but whatever you say; do your best to say why, and do it all politely. Respect their work and they are far more likely to implement your suggestions.

3) ESPECIALLY just after the whole TBP debacle I would have thought people would be more cautious regarding the use of other peoples work and that person's wishes about that work. If you would like to continue work on a model that the creator has restarted work on, you ask permission. As I see it here, Spectre has restarted the model - demonstrating some very impressive modelling and high quality standards in the process I might add, only for some people to go 'Meh. We like the old one better so we're going to continue that one.' That does not at all sound like the spirit under which HLP was founded. Not to mention that you haven't seen the new one finished yet so no matter how it might turn out, even your opinion that the old one was better is a premature one.


So, with that I'd like to apologise to Spectre and Bobboau for the treatment of their work by some, and I hope you'll continue. I for one would love to see more.

1) I was hoping not to reveal this yet, but, frak it: http://s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb317/Tyrkeyz/?action=view&current=MysteryAndOrion.png

2) As far as I am concerned I have no problems with him continuing his current version of the model. While it may seem stupid to have four (five? six?) versions of one ship, people seemed to like the original, and with his consent I would like to see his first model make it into the game. If he wants to continue his second version, I know all too well how it feels, and he is free to do as he pleases.

3) You've no idea how many complaints I've gotten on that first ship I linked to you. I did not throw hours upon end into fifty thousand polygons for nothing (It's not even half way done, I don't know what do do with the mid section at all, and the back is going to have arms) But I'm drifting off topic here.

So, basically the point I'm trying to make is this; Let's all shut up and see what Spectre has to say about it. After all, it's his model.

[Galemp]

Spectre, I think the wish is that you hadn't even known about Bobboau's Orion. We would have liked to see a new interpretation of the source material, not a remake of a remake. We like new spirit and creativity.

[SPECTRE87]

The Drama... 

Anyhow I consider my first try a failure. (One that I've learned from!)
So if people want to use it in their mods then do so, but to be honest I cannot see how it actually could work as a replacement for Bobboau's version in this project. I've already stated why I went ahead remodeling the ship, and I'm surprised that no one likes the idea of compromising the best of Bobboau's Orion with the Retail version. Logically people should rejoice over it as they both get their wishes, but meh, humans are truly a silly creation.

Bobboau's Orion seems a lot like an post-Capella Orion to me, tbh...  (No offense, I like this version a lot, which is why I borrowed ideas from it)

Btw; here's an attachment of my current progress. Much easier to review a model in 3D than by pictures...
This is a Take It or Leave It deal. I do not have the stomach for another try, especially after all the trash thrown at my attempts 


[attachment deleted by admin]

[FoxtrotTango]

Yes, one question, Spectre.

Are you even reading our posts anymore or have you just shut us out? There are a lot of arguments for and against your design and it seems that you haven't even taken consideration of any of it. I just want to be sure if we're getting through to you or not because if not, I certainly don't need to waste my time here.

I'm not offended by the fact that you choose to go with a more derivative model. Just by the fact that you apparently haven't been following anything that's been going on. In your own topic, no less.

[SPECTRE87]

"It's different, creative, etc" isn't exactly an useful sort of argument or feedback... I have been following my own thread, thank you. And all your answers can be found in my post above...

[blowfish]

Is this what this had come to?

Maybe I should have spoken up sooner, instead of just posting models and responding to other peoples' off-topic posts, because I agree with SPECTRE87 in that the first attempt was not quite up-to-par, and while the second was way out of proportion, the current one is getting closer to what the HTL Orion should be.  And I don't know what everyone dislikes so much about Bobboau's ... sure, the greebling just looks like a bunch of random boxes in places, but some of the details were good.

I wish things hadn't ended this way, but oh well, what can you do?