[Lucika]

The Ruse: Aken Bosch as an allied operative

I theoritize that Aken Bosch was no more (or less) than an allied operative working for finding rebellious people inside the GTVA and resurrecting Shivan technology. The ultimate plan is to create a Terran-Shivan Alliance (by no less than the whole commanding officer staff) against the Vasudans. Proofs later to come.


Shivan tech
It is theoritized that the GTA (and not the GTVA!) decided to resurrect the Shivan tech to get the necessary edge against the Vasudans in the upcoming second T-V war.
But – because of the GTI rebellion – they were unable to do this, since they’d have to face a giant roar from the public. This was one of the purposes of the deployment of Bosch.

Inside enemies
In my opinion, the other purpose of Bosch’s deployment (and giving a good lot of operatives under his command) is to find the rebellious beings (yeah, those who’d oppose the GTA and would’ve decided to try to overthrow the present government using up the public anger of the Shivan allies) and forge a fake rebellion. Since Bosch’s connected with the GTVA, they were able to communicate and Command aided Bosch more than once – examples:

Aiding Bosch
1)   The Romans Blunder. No comment.
2)   Stopping the SOC from destroying the Iceni (and Bosch) – I don’t thinh that Terran Command would’ve been so seriously interested in a superweapon (silly excuse) to botch such an opportunity. I’d say that GTA knew that Bosch tried to create a device to communicate with the Shivans and the operation was fake.
3)   Return to Babel. Remember that Command orders not to engage the Iceni? The ubertonnage question is: WHY? They – officially – still have no idea about ETAK.
4)   Into the Lions Den. My opinion is that high people in SOC decided to make a last bold bid to recover their operative – Aken Bosch. This is the reason behind the deployment of our squad. If we look the official statement that this is a recon mission – I disagree. Come on! Everyone is running away as fast as possible, every pilot is needed, they know it very well that they’re outnumbered as hell… why? Why? Why???
5)   This is my bonus track and treat it as a joke: Bosch was unable to get out from the asteroid installation and needed help to get out – the serious question is, tho, that why didn’t the Alliance agreed upon the proposal of withdrawing from Deneb? It was highly probable that Bosch has some kind of a backup plan.

Earlier occasions
Volition, our old friend already done this, more than once – remember McCarthy with his always-rotating head? He wanted to ally with the Vasudans against the unknowns. He was gunned to pieces (okay, carried away…). Later, GTA and PVN allied against the Shivans…
Check out the rest of the rebellions (and don’t forget that FS2 was made in a fashion that it’ll have a continuation!): GTI – kill Vasudans, ally (at least implement their technology) Shivans. Hol? Same. NTF? SAME!!!!!
Volition already used this trick: the GTA does what the rebels wanted to do earlier.

Bosch monologues
Snail mentioned that Bosch’s monologues contradicts these ideas. Let’s see!
Monologue 1: Nothing.
 No. 2: He has enemies, that's all. Isn’t stated that they’re the GTVA.  Calls his own rebellion an "army of stupid cattle". He states that "...my rebellion is about my love for humanity and not my hatred of Vasudans" - THUS he tries to help the Terran-Shivan alliance (thus, humanity – this is what the whole GTA wants) against the Vasudans.
No. 3: Nothing again. He mentions that whether this ruse was useful or not (Fool's Crusade).
No. 4: He is happy that he achieved his goals. Tho he didn't expect that he'll be carried away by the Shivans.


Note that this is just a scratch, but I decided to post it anyway. It might not be the truth, but… who knows?

[Galemp]

It's true that Bosch's motives were to ally with the Shivans and exterminate the Vasudans, and it's true that allied operatives let Bosch proceed with his research in certain cases so they could capture the completed ETAK device. But the idea that the entire NTF rebellion was a conspiracy willed into existence by the GTVA is absurd.

[Snail]

Wonderful! Another wonderful person I can argue -- I mean debate with.

I theoritize that Aken Bosch was no more (or less) than an allied operative working for finding rebellious people inside the GTVA and resurrecting Shivan technology. The ultimate plan is to create a Terran-Shivan Alliance (by no less than the whole commanding officer staff) against the Vasudans. Proofs later to come.

I disagree. Let's go.

Shivan tech
It is theoritized that the GTA (and not the GTVA!) decided to resurrect the Shivan tech to get the necessary edge against the Vasudans in the upcoming second T-V war.
But – because of the GTI rebellion – they were unable to do this, since they’d have to face a giant roar from the public. This was one of the purposes of the deployment of Bosch.

Hold on a moment. You say here that the GTA's goal was to restart the Terran-Vasudan War through the use of Shivan tech. However, if this is true, then why was there evena  need for a GTI rebellion? If the GTA's goals meshed with the GTI's research, then why would the GTI need to rebel in the first place?

Inside enemies
In my opinion, the other purpose of Bosch’s deployment (and giving a good lot of operatives under his command) is to find the rebellious beings (yeah, those who’d oppose the GTA and would’ve decided to try to overthrow the present government using up the public anger of the Shivan allies) and forge a fake rebellion. Since Bosch’s connected with the GTVA, they were able to communicate and Command aided Bosch more than once – examples:

Whoa wait a second there! So the plan is to find all those dissidents and rebels and get rid of them by giving them a rallying point. That seems to be absolutely freaking idiotic on the part of GTVA command were this true. Instead of revealing the dissidents and rebels, you've made them far, far, far stronger by uniting them. It seems daft to try reveal rebellious people by turning them from isolated dissidents into a fully-armed, organized military force. Then you have the snowball effect. At first you just have a few hundred rebels. Some more moderate people might think it's a good idea and become extremists. The NTF was converting more people to their cause. In an attempt to eradicate the rebels you are instead making more of them. I doubt the GTVA would be stupid enough to attempt to get rid of rebels by making them stronger. 

You don't get rid of rebels by inciting them to unite together against you.

I wholeheartedly agree the GTVA were trying to get information out of Bosch regarding Shivan technology. What I don't agree with is this whole rebels conspiracy thing.

Aiding Bosch
1)   The Romans Blunder. No comment.

I agree something was up there, yeah. But I don't agree with the general theory.

2)   Stopping the SOC from destroying the Iceni (and Bosch) – I don’t thinh that Terran Command would’ve been so seriously interested in a superweapon (silly excuse) to botch such an opportunity. I’d say that GTA knew that Bosch tried to create a device to communicate with the Shivans and the operation was fake.

Yep, I agree with you there.

3)   Return to Babel. Remember that Command orders not to engage the Iceni? The ubertonnage question is: WHY? They – officially – still have no idea about ETAK.

Terran Command did know about ETAK, just didn't want other people to know that they knew.

4)   Into the Lions Den. My opinion is that high people in SOC decided to make a last bold bid to recover their operative – Aken Bosch. This is the reason behind the deployment of our squad. If we look the official statement that this is a recon mission – I disagree. Come on! Everyone is running away as fast as possible, every pilot is needed, they know it very well that they’re outnumbered as hell… why? Why? Why???

Yeah. Agree. But, not so much "operative" as their pawn.

5)   This is my bonus track and treat it as a joke: Bosch was unable to get out from the asteroid installation and needed help to get out – the serious question is, tho, that why didn’t the Alliance agreed upon the proposal of withdrawing from Deneb? It was highly probable that Bosch has some kind of a backup plan.

Not sure here.

Earlier occasions
Volition, our old friend already done this, more than once – remember McCarthy with his always-rotating head? He wanted to ally with the Vasudans against the unknowns. He was gunned to pieces (okay, carried away…). Later, GTA and PVN allied against the Shivans…

McCarthy was captured. Following the Shivan invasion of the Great War, he was trialled accordingly. The McCarthy Trials went down in history. It is likely (but by no means certain canonically of course) that McCarthy was pardoned for his foresight. He knew about the Shivans and he knew that to withstand their invasion the Terrans and Vasudans had to work together.

Check out the rest of the rebellions (and don’t forget that FS2 was made in a fashion that it’ll have a continuation!): GTI – kill Vasudans, ally (at least implement their technology) Shivans.

Kill Vasudans? Where? Oh right, in non-canon material. Bzzt wrong there.

The GTI never wanted to kill the Vasudans canonically.

Hol? Same.

The Hammer of Light worshiped the Shivans as Gods. They saw the Destroyers' arrival as the culmination of thousands of years of corruption and evil that the Vasudan race had gathered. There is no instance of the HoL trying to integrate Shivan technology.

NTF? SAME!!!!!

The GTVA does not want to kill Vasudans. By no means.

Volition already used this trick: the GTA does what the rebels wanted to do earlier.

Does it? See above.

Bosch monologues
Snail mentioned that Bosch’s monologues contradicts these ideas. Let’s see!
Monologue 1: Nothing.
 No. 2: He has enemies, that's all. Isn’t stated that they’re the GTVA.  Calls his own rebellion an "army of stupid cattle". He states that "...my rebellion is about my love for humanity and not my hatred of Vasudans" - THUS he tries to help the Terran-Shivan alliance (thus, humanity – this is what the whole GTA wants) against the Vasudans.
No. 3: Nothing again. He mentions that whether this ruse was useful or not (Fool's Crusade).
No. 4: He is happy that he achieved his goals. Tho he didn't expect that he'll be carried away by the Shivans.

My point was not what he did say. It was what he didn't say. If he was a GTVA operative, how come he never mentions it once in his Monologues?

[azile0]

This is actually a good theory, but it's believed that Bosch is Alpha 1 from Silent Threat. I'm still in favor of the Capella BBQ theory, myself. But the "unifying the rebels" actually makes sense to me. What better way to stop rebellion than to gather them all, then slaughter them?

[Bob-san]

This is actually a good theory, but it's believed that Bosch is Alpha 1 from Silent Threat. I'm still in favor of the Capella BBQ theory, myself. But the "unifying the rebels" actually makes sense to me. What better way to stop rebellion than to gather them all, then slaughter them?

You can stop it by gathering small groups and making examples out of them. The NTF wasn't a small group.

[Galemp]

I'm still in favor of the Capella BBQ theory, myself.

Ooh, where can I find that?

[Mobius]

This is actually a good theory, but it's believed that Bosch is Alpha 1 from Silent Threat.

Bosch claimed that he fought the GTI, but there are no references pointing him out as ST's player character. It doesn't make the difference because eyewitnesses and first person actions are nearly to the same level.

[terran_emperor]

I'm still in favor of the Capella BBQ theory, myself.

Ooh, where can I find that?

Here you go

http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Capellan_Barbecue_Theory

[Snail]

What better way to stop rebellion than to gather them all, then slaughter them?

How about not letting them get enough military influence to take control of half your core systems?

[Lucika]

Sorry, wasn't here to answer.
For this whole rebellion, I can only quote Aken Bosch himself:

"...I am merely a fool who created a monster I am now powerless to stop, and so I will play my role to the bloody end."


Even if you agree with me or not, you cannot circumvent the fact that Command aided Bosch more than once.

[Droid803]

Command aided Bosch because they wanted him to finish ETAK, just in case they ever wanted to talk to the Shivans. (and that it would be a tremendous waste if they just blew something potentially use up).
As far as I'm concerned, the GTVA didn't want the NTF to happen, but since it did, they decided to make the best of it (though doing so prolonged the conflict).

[Commander Zane]

I'm still in favor of the Capella BBQ theory, myself.

Ooh, where can I find that?

Here you go

http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Capellan_Barbecue_Theory

I want that to be true.

[Dilmah G]

I don't agree with this at all. So the GTVA would willingly, lay down the lives of their own pilots to get to to the Shivans in short? I don't think so. No offence intended here though Lucika.

[darkdaej]

This is actually a good theory, but it's believed that Bosch is Alpha 1 from Silent Threat.

Bosch claimed that he fought the GTI, but there are no references pointing him out as ST's player character. It doesn't make the difference because eyewitnesses and first person actions are nearly to the same level.

Maybe so but it is a plausible theory, as the ST character is surely not an ensign (even though you may be in rank if you make a new character), simply because of his extended service under Admiral Po(unless SOC decides to appoint junior officers as operatives).  My guess is that the ST character is minimum a Lt. Cmdr. If 30 years passed between those times, this Lt. Cmdr would surely have increased in rank to have his own command and eventually a fleet.  

Mostly though, the Bosch as the ST Alpha 1 is simply plausible because it would make a good continuation.  Remember that the GTI rebellion was localized.  Not many except the Krios' crew (and the other ship you get stationned on after it gets shot to sh1t forgot its name) actually fought in the GTI rebellion.  No major combat theaters developped.  This rebellion was mostly nipped in the bud by pure luck, the Hades being near that station in the final mission of the canon ST (havent finished ST:R, PLEASE DO NOT SPOIL IT!!).

So the statistical probability that Bosch is ST's Alpha 1 is acceptably high.  Remember nearly everyone died in the Krios' destruction except those escape pods (if you actually manage to save them )

[Hellstryker]

Why is this here??

[Droid803]

Why is this here??

What?

[Hellstryker]

Wait, this isn't FS modding...  God i'm not with it tonight.

[Lucika]

Sorry, Snail, no quotestacking, I'll just answer here:

1) Why was there a need for the GTI rebellion?
If we say that the Terrans decided to act as I said (resurrecting Shivan tech & attacking Vasudans), than they've immediately deployed Bosch for these purposes. The GTI was waaaaay earlier.

2) Okay, here's the deal: The GTVA was unaware of the snowball effect, and - of course - didn't want to create a total rebellion (Or... who knows? It might have been useful to start the armament. But anyway, let's move on), just tried to set up a cult or such, but it turned into an open rebellion. Note Bosch's monologue: "I am merely a fool who created a monster I am now powerless to stop, and so I will play my role to the bloody end."

3/3) This isn't proven.

3/4) Come on! We assume that the recon mission is just a cover. And, as I stated, Bosch is an agent, thus not just a pawn (but we don't have to debate on that, the main thing is that they went for Bosch).

3/5) Yup. Another "Why?" on the official events.

4) The GTI rebellion attacking Vasudans. As I stated in the other topic: "Do you think that after the GTI overthrown the GTA, then they'll live peacefully next to the Vasudans? Bah.

McCarthy: Anyway. The broken rebellion done exactly what later the GTA done. I say that in FS3 the Terrans would've tried to ally with the Shivans, as the NTF and/or the Hol wanted to (Hol: "aid them" - ignore the reasons, only care what they do - aiding the Shivans!).

No instance of Hol integrating Shivan tech? What about those shields, my dear?

The GTA doesn't want to kill Vasudans? We cannot be sure. No evidence on the contrary, and note the cutted FS1 cutscenes about the racial conflicts. What if this happened in FS2, too?

"If he was a GTVA (note: I'd say GTA) operative, how come he never mentions it once in his Monologues?"  Mere storyline reasons. didn't want to botch the storyline. Plus, I won't risk babling such stuff in a totally hostile environment if I'd be him.


That's all for now.

[Pred the Penguin]

If you think about it, war would be pretty profitable for war machines like the GTVA. During peacetime, the need for military funding drops. (Colossus being an exception, because it's more of a cautionary act.)
Sure a lot of people die in wars, but with 20+ systems you're not running out of people anytime soon. =/

[darkdaej]

Thing is, even if military spending would be reduced in peacetime, you have to remember that during the 32 years between the two shivan encounters, the GTVA did MASSIVE R&D to fight the shivans should they ever come back.

The GTVA itself told its pilots that the shutting off of both the Epsilon Pegasi and Vega nodes leading to Capella was "only a temporary measure", so even after the 2nd conflict they would keep researching technologies to help them fight the Shivans.

Honestly, there ARE unanswered questions regarding the NTF, but the theory that Bosch was an agent is absurd.

Simply, Allied Command (as the General Assembly is more related to civilian matters, it would not be them, and somehow I doubt the Vasudan Imperium would have planned this), once they found out about ETAK, wanted to know more and thus let Bosch carry on with his business.  Also I'm pretty sure that the GTVA did not know ETAK was designed as Shivan Comm Tech until the first loop mission when you scan the Iceni and the Hinton.

This explains the Sunder escort mission following it, and it explains why the GTVA chastises Admiral Ahmose for violating orders by sending that Mentu and Sobek to destroy the Iceni.  It is highly possible that Ahmose was on standby, that if it was found ETAK was a WMD, Ahmose's ships would be sent in, but when they realised there was no weapon on board, they got curious and wanted to know more.  Remember that at that point in time, the NTF rebellion was already extremely strained, the Repulse having been destroyed, along with the NTF 2nd in command, Rear Admiral Koth. (was it established that he was 2nd in command in canon?)
This means the GTVA could buy time and find out all it could about ETAK.  My guess is they never expected the "rush to the Knossos" when Alpha 1 got luckily transfered to the 64th Raptors to wipe out the NTF fleet.