Author Topic: PCS2 User to User Help  (Read 86454 times)

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Thanks for the info Scooby,
I'm not using TrueSpace, that thing where I have to add all of the lights is horrid plus the interface is just totally convoluted and imprecise.
I'm using Deep Explorer 5.5 CAD edition for all of my conversions.
The scaling of the files works equal in any format it does.
But after reading the PCS Wiki, I'm still not sure when the scaling occurs for PCS2 (during Import or Export or both times)
The only discrepancy I've had with DEx is it turns obj's and wrl's on their side,
but if I open any files converted with it in Rhino 4, Maya 6.5, Blender, GMax, or Lightwave, the units are the usual I saved it to, around 12 Meters.

I just want to know if PCS2 actually does work with a scale factor and when it does, where it occurs?
During import? During save? During both? Mainly, where do I determine my results from to get a valid factor?
At least so I can decide where maintain a consistent process?
Is this the best place to find an answer or should I try to contact Kazan?

I checked the Wiki and this was all I could get:
If PCS gives a "Too many polygons in same average location!" error, it can mean one (or more) of three things:
There is a duplicate of one of the objects in the SCN in the EXACT same position as another of the EXACT same shape and size.
To fix it, just find the duplicate object and delete or move it.
There is a duplicate face somewhere within the one subobject. This is usually a case of bad or unstable geometry somewhere in the model and should be fixed by hand. Look for things like polygons that shimmer as you rotate your view around them, as this is a sign that two polygons are fighting to be on top of each other in the Zbuffer. This commonly happens in very small hard to edit parts of geometry depending on your modelling techniques.
Your object is too small in TS for PCS to be able to clearly tell the difference between two polygon locations during conversion. (This is a common problem for fighters and bombers because of how small they will appear in TS in order to fit the standard conversion ratio of 20 FS meters to each TS meter.)
To fix this, scale the whole ship up in TrueSpace to the size you want it to appear as in Freespace - meter for meter. Then, before converting, set PCS's scaling to 1 rather than 20 and convert.
This should fix it by effectively giving PCS more accuracy when it gets to really small numbers. The up-scaling of your model is counteracted by telling PCS that one TrueSpace meter should equal one Freespace meter, so you don't end up with cruiser sized fighters and the like.

Can I rescale a POF successfully from FRED without messing up all of the data in the POF?
I noticed if I bring in a POF back into PCS2 it strips all of the data.
I would absolutely love it if I could write the numbers or paste them into a text file to import them again so I don't have to do the manual fudge and enter for every point again.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2008, 03:15:29 pm by KewlToyZ »


Offline Water

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But after reading the PCS Wiki, I'm still not sure when the scaling occurs for PCS2 (during Import or Export or both times)
Only on import

One truespace unit = 20 freespace meters.
If you are not using truespace, ignore this. Early Truespace limitations are the only reason for the scale.
Set PCS2 to 1. Scale it properly in your software.

Blender models have to finalised before export by applying scale and rotation. Max has something similar with xform (I think) Make sure your software doesn't have something similar.

Opps didn't ready you weren't using truespace, I just saw cob files.
That's cool and ....disturbing at the same time o_o  - Vasudan Admiral

"Don't play games with me. You just killed someone I like, that is not a safe place to stand. I'm the Doctor. And you're in the biggest library in the universe. Look me up."

"Quick everyone out of the universe now!"

OK thanks guys, I'll try again tonight.
I only use COB because it recognizes the format.
I couldn't get the DAE version of PCS2 running yet and haven't used the format enough to go through learning an entire new process again.
I'm finally getting it to 3 LOD's and debris with the textures reasonably decent now the scale is driving me nuts  ;)
I tried it at 1.0 before and it came in about 1/3rd scale.
Tried it at 3 and it still came into the game the same 3rd size so I was getting bewildered a bit.
I'll keep plugging away at it. At least I can consistently make a pof file now.

One issue I guess I really need to know, how do I know the overall size of the ship when I look at the header in PCS2?
Lets say I just want to verfy the length before I save the file or bother entering all of the points in.
Can I rely on the D factor in the lower right to be the actual length of it in FSO units when I save the POF?
Does the mass affect the scale if I try to increase it?
I tried adjusting it and ended up with a 65 meter fighter.
Even when it goes to 65 meters in size, it still comes out weighing very little?
Is it space weight? :D

If it does this only on import,
I am betting that may be the fact that I am scaling the pof file when I go back and try to check its size by opening in PCS2 with a factor still set high.
So I am multiplying the size everytime I open it.
What may be throwing me is I tried an odd factor of 17 giving me some rather dubious size increases.
I'll verify it all this evening.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2008, 04:08:36 pm by KewlToyZ »

OK how does this thing factor scale?
I have the cob file open and give me a D of 0.71
So to get 12, I set the scale to 16.9 which is supposed to make D= 11.94 and it does when I import it.
When I click to save the pof file D jumps to 61 without me changing or closing or opening anything.
So it has to be multiplying on Import & Export or Save period.
Even when I import with 17, get a result of 12.1, change the scale to 1.0, then save the pof, the damend thing jumps to 61 the second I hit the save button.
This is really getting on my nerves.
I set it to 1.0, forget changing anything, D shows .71 on import, I save the pof file with it set to 1.0 still, and it jumps to 4.04 on clicking the save button. Close, open the pof and D says 4.04.
I change the scale to 3.0, 3x4=12 right, the frigging thing changes D to 3.60????????????????
Close and open the pof file and its 3.60.
I freaking give up man this is insane........
I scale the cob file so its almost 15 meters in size, leave the PCS2 scale at 1.0.....
Import it to PCS2, the D says .71, I save the file it turns into 4.04 again?????
« Last Edit: September 18, 2008, 07:09:23 pm by KewlToyZ »

Nevermind I finally ended up finding a factor of 6.75 gave me the desired result on import, then setting it to 1 before I saved it.
I had to forget math and just keep testing factors until it gave me the right figures to match a Mk7 Viper in the upper boxes.
D is a different factor of the entire model I beleive.

I have the latest working files uploaded to my site 9-18-2008 10:05 EST if you want to play with them:
The POF files with some jerry rigged ships & weapons tables and options in the Algae Planet Gauntlet mission (Special Thanks to Travis Simmons) to use it by default as a sample of how to add it to a mission that also allowsto select other weapons or ships. These are best used for the BtRL ArchAngel mod if you dont want to break Multiplayer on the regular game you can run the MOD offline to fool with it. I need to lookup the latest cockpit build and see how it does, I detailed the texture quite a bit for the dash.

If you want to reskin it or see all of the details and debris with the opriginal models:
This has the 3D models and psp texture files.
Thanks for your help guys :D
As always mucho appreciated!!!

Warning: still trying to figure out how engine glows get masked by the hull geometry so they appear from any angle unfortunately.
This ship with the weapons tables in this mission is extreme overkill to say the least.
It has an afterburner that doesn't run out and clock a speed of 999.
The standard speed is overkill at 400.
The weapons are unlimited ammo and there are 6 of them with green tracers at an extremely high rate.
It disintegrates anything you point it at right now in a ridiculous way.
I was just messing around, this in no way reflects the final models implementation.
I tweaked the rudder down for smoother handling if you use a joystick.
I have not yet tested the collision model of it or the debris, didnt have the patience to wait for it to get slammed or killed yet :D
« Last Edit: September 18, 2008, 09:23:21 pm by KewlToyZ »


Offline Water

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Post your cob file.

PCS2 only ever scales on import, so you have something unusual going on.

Its in the model link files :D
The cob file has no lights since they aren't necessary using Deep Explorer to make a cob for PCS2.

It is acting strangely. I built the 3ds files as individual details to work with in Lithunwrap then assembled them with Rhino to export as a 3ds again. Used Deep Explorer to manipulate the groups and save to cob file.
Then worked with the cob file back and forth between PCS2 & DE until the meshes all show up in the right direction.

I can't figure out engine glows showing up at any angle viewing the ship yet.
Perhaps because they exceeded the radius of the space I placed them into but not the hull of the ship.

I appreciate your time Water.
One good thing I tested the collisons and it is solid and it takes hits.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2008, 11:12:48 pm by KewlToyZ »

A few shots in game

[attachment deleted by ninja]

lmao who gave me the Scotch accent?
"If it isn't Scottish its crap!!!" :)
Looks like the entire thread lad :D


Offline Water

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Dude, sometimes you like causing yourself extra work  :p

Open the pof and click on Detail-0, what is highlighted? Now click on Detail-1 and see what is highlighted.

The hierarchy order does matter ;)  and you should be able to sort out some of the scaling problems now.

Yeah actually I found the Mk7 had that wierdness going on so I followed it having the Canopy as the main parent and the hull underneath in a sub group to get the same structure. I'll fiddle with it some more. Actually I am surprised how small the file widdled down to in the pof.

OK, I'm debugging against the fs2_open_3_6_10_d version out of curiosity and getting tons of inverted bounding box complaints in my pof files. How do I fix these?

Ok it stopped after I re-built using the 5-15-2008 version of PCS2
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 04:16:01 pm by KewlToyZ »


Offline jacek

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Re: Important PCS2 Threads
Hi! I've got problem because I would like to use PCS2 .cob exporter but when I would like to save my file I get program error and application close.

here are steps which I do:
-run PCS2
-select open from menu
-choose .cob and my xxx.cob model file
-models load but I can't see it in viewport
-choose save as xxx.pof and then windows show me that I get error and application close.

Thanks for help  :)


Offline Vasudan Admiral

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Re: Important PCS2 Threads
If it doesn't appear in the viewport, it kinda sounds like it's not actually converting the COB, which could be anything from broken geometry to incorrect naming conventions. ;)

Can you post the COB?
Get the 2014 Media VPs and report any bugs you find in them to the FSU Mantis so that we may squish them. || Blender to POF model conversion guide
Twisted Infinities


Offline jacek

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Re: Important PCS2 Threads
As You wish  :)

If You know what was wrong please tell me about this because I would also have this skill  :D


Offline Vasudan Admiral

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Re: Important PCS2 Threads
Ah, ok it looks like you just don't have any hierarchy at all. PCS2 works with object groups rather than individual objects, so to get this to work, glue the object 'action' to a local light, and rename the resulting object group to 'detail0', like this (where the object 'geometry' represents where 'action' would go):

When you've added stuff like LODs, turrets and debris, the hierarchy should look like:

(Note: ONLY the names of the object groups actually matter - so don't worry about going through and naming each light or anything. :) )

BTW, what program did you use to build this? If it's pretty much anything aside from truespace you should be able to export via DAE for a more direct conversion approach.
Get the 2014 Media VPs and report any bugs you find in them to the FSU Mantis so that we may squish them. || Blender to POF model conversion guide
Twisted Infinities


Offline Kazan

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Re: Important PCS2 Threads
im still waiting for spicious (sp?) to update his patch to the current trunk CVS so i can apply it next time i work on the program.. which might be soon
PCS2 2.0.3 | POF CS2 wiki page | Important PCS2 Threads | PCS2 Mantis

"The Mountains are calling, and I must go" - John Muir


Offline jacek

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Re: Important PCS2 Threads
Hmm I try to do this as You say:

-I install pcs2 collada patch
-set in deep explorer group

-When I try to open this file in PCS2 I have this:

I don't know what is wrong..


Offline Kazan

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Re: Important PCS2 Threads
ask the people who use the Collada... it's hierarchy structure may be different from COB
PCS2 2.0.3 | POF CS2 wiki page | Important PCS2 Threads | PCS2 Mantis

"The Mountains are calling, and I must go" - John Muir