[TheVirtu]

Originally posted by _argv[-1]


Two things about FS2 corvettes...

First, the tech description of the Deimos suggests that its purpose is the same as that of the cruiser, but it's bigger, tougher, and deadlier. A super-cruiser, if you will.

Second, the Deimos has two BGreens on the front, and a TerSlash on each side. It also has no less than six AAA guns, and six more flak guns. The Hecate has two BGreens on the front, and another BGreen on each side and the rear, for reference. The Deimos isn't that weak...

Since when did the GTCv Deimos have 2 BGreens as default weapons?

[EdrickV]

The Deimos' default weapons don't include any BGreens, unless you're using a ships.tbl from some mod. (Not sure what it actually has in FS2 campaign missions though, that might be different from the default.)

[killadonuts]

Think of a frigate as a destroyer without fighter complement and no hangars.
As a result, they are smaller and faster but by themselves pack almost as much heat as a destroyer

Heres something to think about: How would the GTVA Colossus be classified?

[EdrickV]

I believe the Colossus was considered a super destroyer by the staff. Of all the ships, the GTM Hippocrates is the closest to being an actual frigate I think, though they probably lowered it's turret count. From it's pof name I think it was originally intended to be a frigate. (As I've previously mentioned.) But you can get an idea what size and basic style they were thinking of for a frigate in FS2 by looking at the Hippocrates.

[Bishop Gantry]

Heres something to think about: How would the GTVA Colossus be classified?

Toothlees freighter:doh: :doh: :doh:

[_argv[-1]]

Originally posted by EdrickV
The Deimos' default weapons don't include any BGreens, unless you're using a ships.tbl from some mod. (Not sure what it actually has in FS2 campaign missions though, that might be different from the default.)

You're right; maybe I was looking at a modified ships.tbl without knowing it.

[Liberator]

By default the Deimos has all TSlashes.  But in the Main Campaign it varies from mission to mission.  Example: the Lysander and Actium have BGreens but only fire them to destroy the cruisers.  Meanwhile, later the Hawkwood has TSlashes except the aft right cannon which is an SGreen which is only fired at the Colossus.

The TSlash is used by default because it has a faster recycle time and looks more impresive.

[_argv[-1]]

Originally posted by Liberator
The TSlash is used by default because it has a faster recycle time and looks more impresive.

It's weak beyond reason, it doesn't hit the target during 2/3 of its life (except on the rare occasion that it slashes the target lengthwise), and its life is only a couple of seconds. That's supposed to look impressive?

[aldo_14]

IMO;

Corvettes - used in groups to flank and destroy larger ships, or 1 on 1 against similar / smaller ships.

Destroyers - jack of all trades - serve as filed command for the fleet, perform major operations against large capital ships or for blockades, provide fighter cover for smaller ships during battles.  I reckon they are often held back simply to ensure they can provide cover - and their positioning in key battles reflects this.   Also suitable for heavy recon, as they can cover large areas with fighters (Fs2  - Aquitane and Psamptik in the nebula).

Frigate - smallest fighter carring capital ship.  Carries a small complement of dedicated fighter craft - possibly half that of a destroyer - and a limited amount of defensive weaponry.  Emphasis on speed over power - in order to be used safely in teh kind of missions that the Psamptik was lost on.  Also lower profile than destroyers, for use in covert operations.

Probably a dedicted ship - not used much by fleet, and more SOC and Vasudan equivalent groups.

[wizz33]

how big should its fighter complement be?

the firgate i mean.

and how big are those of the Orion, Hectate and hasteput?

...tnx karajorma

[karajorma]

The fighter complement of a destroyer is around 120+ ships. There's no way a frigate should carry half of that. Give them a couple of squadrons at most. 24 maybe 30 ships maximum. If you want to know fighter complements have a look at this site

http://pub11.ezboard.com/fjtofrm11.showMessage?topicID=4.topic

[elorran]

Freespace classifications are based upon pre-WW2 era classes where the destroyer was originally larger and more powerful than the cruiser.  These classes where also based upon size with firepower coming as a second classification field.

Todays classifications are based upon mass and size rather than firepower and size.  The various classes have also been revered in their usage now playing the destroyer as a smaller and lighter ship than a cruiser.

Dreadnaughts wheren't technically a class, but rather a type of design originally constructed by the britist navy back in the days of WW1.  But the name evolved and eventually became associated with the larger-than-battleship class vessels.  Somewhere along the lines this also splintered off to become known as juggernaughts as well.

Fighters, Bombers and Support Gunboats are all support strike craft and shall not be placed into the same list as cruisers and battleships because they are not the same.  Although we often thing of these vessels as small, fast and maneuverable compared to the hulking mass of the capital ship, they aren't always.  Think of the B-52 bomber and the shear size and mass of that plane.  It's a bomber, though far from small and maneuverable like an F-16 or F-3.

The same applies to Carrier vessels.  A carrier is a transport vessels for smaller combat support craft.  Not all classes should be placed into the same lists.

Classification by modern/todays standards are...

Corvette
Frigate
Destroyer
Cruiser
   Battle Cruiser
Battleship
Dreadnaught/Juggernaught (depending where you're from)

Freespace Classifications...

Combat Support Craft
Cruiser
Corvette
Destroyer
Juggernaught

A frigate in FS2 is roughly appoximate to a corvette class vessel give or take a bit, though they don't appear to be an official classification of ship size/mass.

[_argv[-1]]

Originally posted by elorran
Freespace classifications are based upon pre-WW2 era classes where the destroyer was originally larger and more powerful than the cruiser.  These classes where also based upon size with firepower coming as a second classification field.

I was beginning to think the terminology consultant for FreeSpace was incompetent or something. Thanks for clearing that up.

Fighters, Bombers and Support Gunboats are all support strike craft and shall not be placed into the same list as cruisers and battleships because they are not the same.  Although we often thing of these vessels as small, fast and maneuverable compared to the hulking mass of the capital ship, they aren't always.  Think of the B-52 bomber and the shear size and mass of that plane.  It's a bomber, though far from small and maneuverable like an F-16 or F-3.

This contrast also appears in the difference between the GTF Pegasus (smallest fighter by volume) and GTB Ursa (largest bomber by volume, apart from some Shivan bombers).

And by the way, B-52s are one hell of a lot faster than battleships. I suspect that the reason they aren't classed with cruisers and battleships is because they are aircraft, not watercraft. In FreeSpace, fighters, bombers, and warships are all spacecraft, so one might be tempted to group them together.

The same applies to Carrier vessels.  A carrier is a transport vessels for smaller combat support craft.  Not all classes should be placed into the same lists.

Note that FreeSpace destroyers and juggernauts (and some corvettes, namely the SCv Moloch class) also fall into the carrier class, since they carry fighters and bombers.

A frigate in FS2 is roughly appoximate to a corvette class vessel give or take a bit, though they don't appear to be an official classification of ship size/mass.

They are if you consider the Iceni. In that case, a frigate is a warship that is bigger, tougher, and more heavily armed than a corvette, but less so than a destroyer. Personally, I don't see why one would need such a ship. I think :V: should have just made the Iceni bigger and called it a destroyer. (Yes, you can make a reasonable-looking asteroid large enough to encase a destroyer. It'd be pretty big, but hey, some asteroids are big.)

[Kazashi]

elorran: a couple of corrections if I may.

Pre-WWII destroyers were generally still smaller than cruiser class vessels. Some WW1 era cruisers were developed that had smaller dimensions than a couple of the later destroyer classes, however they retained a greater displacement, crew compliment, and armament. Things might've been different in the 19th century though....

The HMS Dreadnought was the British Navy's next "experiment" following the battleship classes, for the purpose of deploying bigger guns and more of them. There was no actual class of Dreadnought, though there were classes of battleship such as the Bellerophon and Colossus that were placed into that grouping due to the use of multiple 12" guns like the Dreadnought. Maybe that name just sounded so cool

[beatspete]

Originally posted by _argv[-1]


I think :V: should have just made the Iceni bigger and called it a destroyer. (Yes, you can make a reasonable-looking asteroid large enough to encase a destroyer. It'd be pretty big, but hey, some asteroids are big.)

I dont think only made the Iceni small so they could hide it in an asteroid.  The Iceni was a custom built command ship, its general tactic was to run, and it was good at it. Just think about the SOC mission where u are escorting the Iceni, a sobek warps in, and the iceni runs, even though it had enough firepower to destroy it in the first place (does in the end). If a destroyer goes into battle, its gonna have to be better than its enemy since destroyers arent fast enough to run.  Plus with someone like Bosch coordinating tactics, who needs to pick a fight anyway?  Take the mission where the Iceni sneeks past the Collosus and into the nebula, you couldnt have done that in an Orion or Hecate.  The NTF had the Repulse for warfare, the Iceni was too important for battle.


pete

[killadonuts]

Originally posted by beatspete


I dont think only made the Iceni small so they could hide it in an asteroid.  The Iceni was a custom built command ship, its general tactic was to run, and it was good at it. Just think about the SOC mission where u are escorting the Iceni, a sobek warps in, and the iceni runs, even though it had enough firepower to destroy it in the first place (does in the end). If a destroyer goes into battle, its gonna have to be better than its enemy since destroyers arent fast enough to run.  Plus with someone like Bosch coordinating tactics, who needs to pick a fight anyway?  Take the mission where the Iceni sneeks past the Collosus and into the nebula, you couldnt have done that in an Orion or Hecate.  The NTF had the Repulse for warfare, the Iceni was too important for battle.


pete

This is correct, the NTF Iceni was designed to fight only if it had to.
Why do you think the NTD Repulse was selected to command the Epsilon Pegasi offensive?

[Nuclear1]

Originally posted by killadonuts

This is correct, the NTF Iceni was designed to fight only if it had to.
Why do you think the NTD Repulse was selected to command the Epsilon Pegasi offensive?

.......uuuuuhhhhh, 'cause Koth was Rear Admiral and very experienced?:doh:
Beer war!

[killadonuts]

Originally posted by nuclear1


.......uuuuuhhhhh, 'cause Koth was Rear Admiral and very experienced?:doh:
Beer war!

I diddn't mean the ship individually. I ment it as an Orion class destroyer

[Nuclear1]

I dont think the NTF was capable of constructing Hecates, so they resorted to using the older Orions. Plus, they seemed to be in mass production with the NTF at the time.........

[_argv[-1]]

Originally posted by beatspete



I dont think only made the Iceni small so they could hide it in an asteroid.  The Iceni was a custom built command ship, its general tactic was to run, and it was good at it. Just think about the SOC mission where u are escorting the Iceni, a sobek warps in, and the iceni runs, even though it had enough firepower to destroy it in the first place (does in the end). If a destroyer goes into battle, its gonna have to be better than its enemy since destroyers arent fast enough to run.  Plus with someone like Bosch coordinating tactics, who needs to pick a fight anyway?  Take the mission where the Iceni sneeks past the Collosus and into the nebula, you couldnt have done that in an Orion or Hecate.  The NTF had the Repulse for warfare, the Iceni was too important for battle.


pete

That would imply that a destroyer couldn't jump in, get past the Colossus, and jump back out in 30 seconds. That's a lot of time, even for a destroyer. Also, if the destroyer's size makes it too large to get past the Colossus without colliding with it, it could always jump in on the other side of the Knossos.