[NGTM-1R]

So because He gave us free choice, you must defy His glory?

Of course. God gave us free choice, which was a really stupid move for an omnipotent being if he didn't want us to suddenly realize he's been a massive asshole at several points.

[Scotty]

By our standards.  We apply our own pitifully inadequate morality to His glory.

[NGTM-1R]

By our standards.  We apply our own pitifully inadequate morality to His glory.

What standards did he expect us to apply? He knew this was going to happen. He had to. Or He's not God.

[Knight Templar]

This is me posting in a thread with a new and interesting topic.

[colecampbell666]

he gave us nothing we took it !

From?  The vast, unending vaccuum of space?

seriously giuys all this god stuff sucks so big

Jerkish opinion alert!

because i do not believe what you believe then i am a jerk ..... nice

maybe you can stone me or banish me ......

your belief is your belief , there is no fact just opinion , i have no written work , no dogma , and no "im better than you" attitude
i am responsable for my actions and i will deal with that and not wait to be judged by my maker but judged by my peers


and yes we did come from the vast vacuum of space .... incredible


your beliefs are based on fear and oppression and have very little to do with anything else.....

You are a good man.

[Scotty]

I'm not seeing how that works.

[colecampbell666]

The main thing is that we have free will, (if there is a god) he gave it to us, and if I can't use my free will because a fat man in robes tells me that I'm sinning, then that's not free will, or god.

Who is he (the priest/rabbi/etc.) to judge me?

[Scotty]

Who is he (the priest/rabbi/etc.) to judge me

A fallable man.

and if I can't use my free will because a fat man in robes tells me that I'm sinning, then that's not free will, or god.

What would you care for?  You don't seem to about much else. 

I'm fairly certain that god is not a fat man in robes, so you would be correct there.  Not even sure where you drew that connection.

Where does that fat man take away your free will?  You still have it, and can exercise it by not listening.

[colecampbell666]

Talking about the priest, not god. Who is this man to tell me I'm doing wrong and judge me?

[Scotty]

See part one of my previous post.

Alternatively,

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged."

.

He'll get his, don't worry about it.

[Liberator]

So because He gave us free choice, you must defy His glory?

he gave us nothing we took it !

seriously giuys all this god stuff sucks so big

no proof no proof no proof

Faith is proof enough.

BTW, he did give it, freely and without reservation.  He went voluntarily and allowed himself to be hung on a cross until dead.  He could have called legions of angels to come down and rescue him, smiting all around, but he didn't.  He allowed himself as the final sacrifice for any and all who would ask for it.  You do know that being crucified is one of the most painful, lingering ways to die right?  And it's not just for show.

As for holding us back...the Church was one of the major retainers of knowledge during the Fall and the Dark Ages that followed them.  So without them, we'd probably be a century or more behind our current level of development.

Any religion can be taken too far, but most of you turkey's believe that any religion is taking it too far.

[colecampbell666]

Faith is proof enough.

Are you a comedian?

Faith is not proof, it is your own personal belief. If so, good for you, I couldn't care either way.

BTW, he did give it, freely and without reservation.  He went voluntarily and allowed himself to be hung on a cross until dead.  He could have called legions of angels to come down and rescue him, smiting all around, but he didn't.  He allowed himself as the final sacrifice for any and all who would ask for it.  You do know that being crucified is one of the most painful, lingering ways to die right?  And it's not just for show.

Wait... Jesus died for my sins, so don't I have a "Get-Out-Of-Hell-Free" card?

[iamzack]

So because He gave us free choice, you must defy His glory?

he gave us nothing we took it !

seriously giuys all this god stuff sucks so big

no proof no proof no proof

Faith is proof enough.

BTW, he did give it, freely and without reservation.  He went voluntarily and allowed himself to be hung on a cross until dead.  He could have called legions of angels to come down and rescue him, smiting all around, but he didn't.  He allowed himself as the final sacrifice for any and all who would ask for it.  You do know that being crucified is one of the most painful, lingering ways to die right?  And it's not just for show.

And then he went back up to heaven.

God loves us so much he sacrificed himself as his son so that... his son would be right back with him. As him.

[Scotty]

You have to accept it.

It's like (not even funny how much better it could be) getting a stimulus check.  It doesn't work unless you cash it.

[NGTM-1R]

He went voluntarily and allowed himself to be hung on a cross until dead.  He could have called legions of angels to come down and rescue him, smiting all around, but he didn't.  He allowed himself as the final sacrifice for any and all who would ask for it.  You do know that being crucified is one of the most painful, lingering ways to die right?  And it's not just for show.

Ah yes. The worst of all the old evanglical arguments. The most dimwitted and irrevelant.

The "JESUS HUNG ON A ****ING CROSS, ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS ALTER YOUR DAILY LIFE! COME ON!"

[iamzack]

Actually it depends which flavor of Christianity you believe in. Lutherans believe it is absolutely a get-out-of-hell-free card.

[Scotty]

Meh, interpretation more than a real difference.  I think of myself as the next-best thing to non-denominational.

Yeah, that makes sense, Luther did preach "justification by grace through faith," although that still means faith is required.

[Liberator]

It's not free, any one can have it, but anyone that truly accepts it will want to change.  I've seen it happen.

[colecampbell666]

Actually it depends which flavor of Christianity you believe in. Lutherans believe it is absolutely a get-out-of-hell-free card.

That sort of explains Lobo...

Baptism doesn't seem to be that bad, either.

Is anyone getting tired of hearing the same repeated arguments for Christianity again and again?

[iamzack]

Meh, interpretation more than a real difference.  I think of myself as the next-best thing to non-denominational.

Yeah, that makes sense, Luther did preach "justification by grace through faith," although that still means faith is required.

The current iteration is that God is infinitely forgiving, and you are saved by his grace. The faith and **** is basically in thanks.

Christianity kinda sickens me with all the "ohh we are so sinful and unworthy of anything, blah, blahhhh"