[General Battuta]

Go read a book.

[Mobius]

*Mobius derails the thread on purpose to prevent flame wars

I'm not an Admiral yet.

[General Battuta]

There's been a lot of research on near-death experiences. (NDEs).

Interestingly, you can induce them with high G-forces.

They also seem to have profound effects on personality; individuals who experience NDEs show greater generosity, social belonging, and feelings of spirituality for the rest of their lives.

This seems to provide evidence for a biological basis of religious feelings and experiences, and may even explain the difference between someone like Goober (who 'feels' God in day-to-day life) and someone like me.

Or it may not! Further research needed.

[Mobius]

I guess I'd throw in a couple of things about NDEs:

1) First of all, claiming that there's only one kind of near death experience vision (namely, the subspace-like tunnel) is false, because the vision depends on the culture. The Japanese, for example, cross a river because their culture gives a lot of importance to that action;

2) I have the feeling that in the future people would laugh at our current way to analyze and discuss NDEs just like we laugh at the "Earth is flat!" claim and other outdated claims. Research is in progress and Science might be able to provide us with reasonable explanations very soon. Keep in mind, guys, that the capabilities of human brains are not fully known.

[General Battuta]

I guess I'd throw in a couple of things about NDEs:

1) First of all, claiming that there's only one kind of near death experience vision (namely, the subspace-like tunnel) is false, because the vision depends on the culture. The Japanese, for example, cross a river because their culture gives a lot of importance to that action;

Actually, NDEs seem to be pretty much universal between culture and -- critically -- between ages. Even the very young report the 'tunnel of light' phenomenon. It seems like it has a neurological, rather than cultural, basis.

The tunnel of light probably has to do with activity in the primary visual cortex, and the sensation of welcoming and oneness can be reproduced (and is attributed to) depressed activity in a specific area of the brain. I'll try to look up the exact area; it's also associated with religious feelings (as in intense prayer.)

[Mobius]

Tunnel of light seems connected to G forces. Oh, you've already said it in your previous post.

There are differences in NDEs - I mentioned the Japanese people's vision, for example. There should be more.

[colecampbell666]

I think that a lot of the imaging associated, as Mob touched on, is imprinted. They may happen, but they happen based on suggestion about what it's "supposed" to feel like.

[General Battuta]

Tunnel of light seems connected to G forces. Oh, you've already said it in your previous post.

There are differences in NDEs - I mentioned the Japanese people's vision, for example. There should be more.

Citation please. Differing interpretations of the same thing are not equivalent to seeing different things.

And the tunnels of light are not exclusively experienced under G forces. Rather, they are connected to NDEs as a whole, which simply suggests that G-forces can induce the NDE state (but are not the only method of doing so.)

[Mobius]

I don't know how to link you to a citation, really.

It doesn't come from my mind, I can ensure this. The problem is that I read it on a magazine dedicated to Science, a few years ago. And the language is Italian.

Uhm, looks like most of the contents have been archived. I should be hopefully able to find that specific article - although you surely won't understand it, there was an interesting pic showing the Japanese vision.

EDIT: Incredible, I found it! All I need to do know is making sure that you can read it...

[Rick James]

There's been a lot of research on near-death experiences. (NDEs).

Interestingly, you can induce them with high G-forces.

They also seem to have profound effects on personality; individuals who experience NDEs show greater generosity, social belonging, and feelings of spirituality for the rest of their lives.

This seems to provide evidence for a biological basis of religious feelings and experiences, and may even explain the difference between someone like Goober (who 'feels' God in day-to-day life) and someone like me.

Or it may not! Further research needed.

BATTLE TECHNIQUE -> FAIR SHAKE



You give equal consideration to both sides of the argument. Permanent +2 to "Diplomacy".

---

Anyhoo, on a more serious note, some individuals may actually have a genetic predisposition towards religion. As Richard Dawkins states in one of his books, The God Delusion. It is explained as a sort of side-effect of "altruistic genetics."

[Mobius]

EDIT: Incredible, I found it! All I need to do know is making sure that you can read it...

Argh, I can't. I need to be part to a special user group to open a file from the archives.

Siamo stati fantasmi
E' possibile "uscire" dal corpo? Chi torna dal coma dice di sì.
Focus -  147
10/01/2005

January 10th, 2005. I knew it was a bit old...well, looks like I can't provide citations until I find the copy of the magazine I have. 

[General Battuta]

It's okay, I believe you. Thanks for the cite, Mobius -- it's a really interesting topic.

[Mobius]

I think you should be able to find something on the internet...

[Kosh]

There's been a lot of research on near-death experiences. (NDEs).

When the brain is traumatized (through being borderline dead or through high g forces) it will create sort of a hallucination. Nothing religious about it.

[General Battuta]

There's been a lot of research on near-death experiences. (NDEs).

When the brain is traumatized (through being borderline dead or through high g forces) it will create sort of a hallucination. Nothing religious about it.

That's pretty much the point of my post, if you go back and read it.

[TrashMan]

BATTLE TECHNIQUE -> FAIR SHAKE



You give equal consideration to both sides of the argument. Permanent +2 to "Diplomacy".

Ahh...Problem Sleuth. Loved it!