[Stormkeeper]

Different perspectives are often the largest causes of conflicts in the world.

[General Battuta]

From my perspective, your side is one doing the humming.

I can cite my sources. You can't. If you had data I'd listen to you. Go read Outliers, give me your critique.

Wait. Hold on. What side am I on? Tell me who I am, go on.

You don't know what I read, where I get my information, or what I think about politics or the world - and yet you've made those traits clear in yourself. Why do you think I'm on a side?

I never said anything about your side. The entire idea of the 'culture war' is a myth; it has never influenced presidential elections and it certainly isn't represented in the actual US population. I talked about you, an individual.

  See, here's the difference. You rush to judge, hasten to categorize, and try to simplify everything into black and white. I'm at least willing to hear what you have to say before judging you. Do me the same courtesy.

[karajorma]

Why should I bother replying to anything any of you say?  You think my beliefs are foolish and that I am an idiot.  I couldn't say anything that could possibly be taken seriously in this atmosphere.

Absolute "I am the victim" nonsense.

I'd be quite happy to listen to you. You on the other hand make NO effort to listen to me. When I or anyone else on here writes a clear explanation of why you are wrong you simply ignore it. You pay no attention to it unless you can find one line that you think you can answer.

So if you feel no one pays any attention to you viewpoints it's because we can prove them to be incorrect and you can not prove them to be correct in the slightest.


Of course you will ignore this post and carry on acting as if no one listens to you.

[General Battuta]

Yeah, that.

If it had to do with your politics, then people like spardason and Scotty would get the same treatment, but as it is they're capable and enjoyable debaters. So the problem is not with your affiliation but with your reasoning.

[Bobboau]

I remember a few years ago the conservatives basically saying 'lolhippies' about all the antiwar protests, now all of the liberals are saying 'lolinsurancecompanyplants' about all the conservative protests against socialized healthcare. at least the conservatives recognized there was protests going on.

[iamzack]

The conservatives called antiwar protesters terrorists.

At least we recognize these people aren't malevolent, just uninformed and racist.

[Bobboau]

racist?

[General Battuta]

Yeah, I gotta agree with iamzack, racism plays a pretty heavy role in a lot of these protests.

Probably not an explicit or even consciously acknowledged level, but it's there.

[Bobboau]

oh, I see, it couldn't possibly be because they don't like the legislation, it's because Obama is black and on an unconscious level conservatives are all racist so that must be why they are protesting, no one could possibly have a valid disagreement with redistributing wealth via health care, so yeah, lets just assume it's racism and ignore them.

you know, when I heard people saying we were not ready for a black president, I said, only if anyone who disagrees with him or his party will be called a racist. well I guess we see how that's turning out.

anyways
those hippies that protest against the war just hate Americans.
those racists that protest against socialized medicine just hate black people.
isn't it cool how much you have in common?

[iamzack]

Racists:









chain email

chain email

chain email

chain email

image

image

image

*fixed

Now show me the hippies that hate America.

[Bobboau]

really?

I hate you for making me troll through a bunch of conservative blogs.









and for good measure



I'm sure I can find as many as you want.

[General Battuta]

Yeah, but those look like political protests. Nothing particularly racist.

[Bobboau]

yeah, I'm sure it's safe to judge everyone in a protest based on the select few images a hand full of politically antagonistic websites can find of them.

[Sushi]

Probably not an explicit or even consciously acknowledged level, but it's there.

I think it's dangerous and foolish to start attributing opposition to subconscious racism. I'm not saying you are, but some certainly do: either they really don't understand the objections of the opposition (so they substitute a motive they can understand) or it's just a cheap shot to demonize opponents. Either way, it's not a healthy attitude.

I'm not denying the existence of racists, or the fact that some people protesting Obama are racist. I just despise the "closet racist" way of dismissing/demonizing opposition.


<rant>
Also, the fact that people are blaming/crediting Obama for new healthcare proposals makes me want to scream. Obama isn't writing healthcare proposals. He doesn't have that power! That power belongs to congress, as does the blame/credit for whatever ends up happening. Sure, Obama wields the veto, but that is most definitely the lesser responsibility. RTFC and hold the right people responsible for once! </rant>

<morerant>
I'm becoming more and more convinced that a huge chunk of America doesn't really understand or want the constitutional republic form of government that we theoretically have. They want one person, a King, to place their trust in and blame their problems on. That scares the crap out of me.

At the close of the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia on September 18, 1787, a Mrs. Powel anxiously awaited the results, and as Benjamin Franklin emerged from the long task now finished, asked him directly: "Well Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?" "A republic if you can keep it" responded Franklin.

</morerant>

I feel better now. Sort of.

[Blue Lion]

Were some left wing protesters making complete fools of themselves? Sure were.

Were other left wing protesters making rational well thought out protests? Sure were.

What do you think got more news? The Democrats (rightly) told the nutjobs where to stick it. The rantings and fire starting and such didn't become party policy.

Now you have gibbering people with crazy signs and no real well thought out opposition.  Health care reform as an idea has high poll numbers, public option has fairly high poll numbers, Medicare and Medicaid (socialism!) have really high poll numbers.

Why are right wing bloggers/teabaggers/Republican Party members against it then? Obama. Some dislike him because he's Democrat, some because he's black (and believe me, there ARE people who dislike him because he's black)

The main problem is for the GOP, this is now standard for them in opposition. They can't tune out the crazies because the crazies is all they have.

[Bobboau]

I didn't say there did not exist a single racist. I said you are an idiot if you think the right winged protests are because of racism and not because they have a problem with socialized health care.

[iamzack]

They are in large part because of racism. I also cited "uninformed" as a factor.

TBH, I have yet to see/hear anything BUT misinformation and racism. And I don't just mean in the media. I mean *anywhere.*

[General Battuta]

Probably not an explicit or even consciously acknowledged level, but it's there.

I think it's dangerous and foolish to start attributing opposition to subconscious racism. I'm not saying you are, but some certainly do: either they really don't understand the objections of the opposition (so they substitute a motive they can understand) or it's just a cheap shot to demonize opponents. Either way, it's not a healthy attitude.

I'm not denying the existence of racists, or the fact that some people protesting Obama are racist. I just despise the "closet racist" way of dismissing/demonizing opposition.

Well, I do research on implicit subconscious racism, which is present in the automatic cognitive processes of just about everyone. And I must say that some of the criticisms of Obama carry some telling flags. By no means all, but when I hear things like 'he's not a real American', 'he's a terrorist', 'he's the first affirmative-action president' (because non-whites only achieve things due to handouts, right?), it sets off alarms.

As for the back end, as with so many of the freakouts these days, I don't see why you're concerned about people wanting a king now when everyone was rushing to hand the last administration our civil liberties in exchange for protection. Where was the fear then?

[StarSlayer]

Yeah there are a lot of people pissed off at the government right now, and while its good press to throw up the imagery of the bat **** crazy ones thats a relatively small sample set of the amount of people who are worried about whats going on.  There might be thousands of people pissed off because he's black but there are millions who are scared ****less (rightly or wrongly) about their retirement and health care.  Trust me folk are much more concerned about their livelihood then Obama's skin color.  Liberals trying to label everyone who disagrees with them as racists is as stupid as the conservatives screaming that folks were unpatriotic if they questioned theirs.

Now I'm not saying I agree with either side, quite frankly I haven't made up my mind, but the idea that everyone who is opposing the massive expenditures the government is proposing are doing it because they're bigots is foolish.  

[Bobboau]

They are in large part because of racism. I also cited "uninformed" as a factor.

TBH, I have yet to see/hear anything BUT misinformation and racism. And I don't just mean in the media. I mean *anywhere.*

well, that's probably because you don't go to conservative sources. you go to "unbiased" sources, i.e. the ones telling you things the way you think is right i.e. liberal sources.
unless I'm mistaken and you give fox news enough time to let them pose their position to you.