[rubixcube]

Not sure if this topic has been posted before, but I was wondering what everyone thinks about the Lucifer's shields;
Do you think they protect against beams, or can they be penetrated by them?
Are they totally impervious to conventional fire, or are they just to strong to be realistically penetrated by great war era weapons?
What are your thoughts?

[Enigmatic Entity]

From what I can remember from other threads:

If you have 1,000 FS1 ships pounding away at the shields, they will fail, as the generators can't regenerate fast enough. Of course, that's fairly unrealistic.

Due to the fact that FS2 beams go through shields, then beams can go through the Lucifer's shields as well.


EDIT: at below: The 1,000 ships is a theory - I read somewhere that the shields do go down, but so slowly (and they recharge) that heaps and heaps of (FS1) ships would be needed to totally bring down the shields.

[Aardwolf]

Huh? What's this about 1000 FS1 ships? I don't remember anything like that.

As for beams, I believe that's the consensus.

[Solatar]

I always thought of it like shooting a bow and arrow (old one...not some compound bow with a grenade) at a tank.  The tank isn't technically invincible, but it doesn't really matter how many arrows you fire at it; it won't take damage.  A beam cannon is an anti-tank missile.

[Aardwolf]

Pffft. Bow+arrow is underrated. Against personnel, they're deadly.

[General Battuta]

Pffft. Bow+arrow is underrated. Against personnel, they're deadly.

He did kinda specify against tanks.

[TrashMan]

Logic would dictate that shields are not 100% impervious to attacks. Makes sense when you think about it.

Action and reaction. In order to stop X energy you need to invest X energy. There is a reason the Lucifer had 5 shield reactors

[NGTM-1R]

We do not know that the shield can be strained by repeated attacks. We have no idea if the number of reactors is a basic requirement to erect it at which point incoming fire places no further demands on it, or what.

I assume that, given that Vasuda Prime was usually only one jump from the battle lines, it was heavily militarized and capable of preventing anyone from getting close enough to drop a few continent-cracking Harbingers on the planet. The Vasudans would have thrown everything in their arsenal at the Lucifer, including the rocks. If it were possible to simply beat down the Lucifer's shields with sustained fire or penetrate them with a sufficently powerful single blast or projectile, I have to believe it would have happened at Vasuda Prime.

It didn't. That leaves beam cannon as the only reasonble recourse.

[QuantumDelta]

I'm still sceptical even in regards to beams, it's not cannon, it's fanon and the Lucifer wasn't shielded, not massive damage tagged, it was clean cut invulnerable, whilst you can debate the physics all you like this game breaks the laws of physics from mission one, thousands of times over, so I personally find it a weak argument.

[Killer Whale]

It does seem kinda unrealistic to crash the lucifer into capella, cause it to go supernova, crash it against the neutron star. And still have it come out unharmed because of it's shields.

[TrashMan]

I assume that, given that Vasuda Prime was usually only one jump from the battle lines, it was heavily militarized and capable of preventing anyone from getting close enough to drop a few continent-cracking Harbingers on the planet. The Vasudans would have thrown everything in their arsenal at the Lucifer, including the rocks. If it were possible to simply beat down the Lucifer's shields with sustained fire or penetrate them with a sufficently powerful single blast or projectile, I have to believe it would have happened at Vasuda Prime.

It didn't. That leaves beam cannon as the only reasonble recourse.

You missing another obvious answer - tehy didn't bring enough guns.

If you assume that the Lucifer has 5 massive shivan reactors just to power the shields, then you'd need AT LEAST that much worth of incoming fire to bring it down. So you'd need at least 5 destroyers pounding on it. In FS terms, that's a whole LOT of firepower..and the Lucy wasn't alone.
I kinda doubt the Vasudans were able to bring 5 destroyers against it. Even 2 destroyers is a large force in FS1.


EDIT:
Lucifer was invulnerable in-game because the plot demands that it survives. If you left ANY room open to a player, there are ones who would take it, even if they have to park their fighter and blast away for 2 days straight at x64.
It's basicly a game mechanic.
Or are you saiyng that the Iceni and Snipes also have lucifer shields (I belive at one point or another tehy also had the invulnerable flag set).

[Colonol Dekker]

There is a reason the Lucifer had 5 shield reactors

 
I agree with with you're saying T completely.  I don't remember FS saying they were dedicated to sheilds though.

[QuantumDelta]

My point;
The plot demands it be completely impervious to everything, several points in the plot suggested they used experimental high yield devices against the shields and absolutely nothing happened.
Because the plot demands it be completely impervious doesn't mean that FS2 is magically more powerful and would be able to get around it's complete invulnerability.
The ship was unique so far as we know in canon, and that still makes it special.
The ship had no weaknesses beyond it's game ending one in canon, and that still makes it special.
Again, physics don't matter.

As for the iceni/snipes, don't mistake a plot device for mission design trying to prevent people who are so horribly stupidly ****e at the game that they need those flags to stop them being stuck in the game. 

[TrashMan]

The FS1 quote is "APPEARS to be completely impervious". That's not a given. And it really can't be. There is no such thing as invulnerabiltiy. It doesn't exist. It cannot exist.

And while they did try some experimental weaponry, that still doesn't mean they brought ENOUGH of it.
If hte lucy shield re-charges at 10000TW per second then your 2000TW bomb will do NOTHING. You'd need at least 5 simountaniously to even notice an effect.

[headdie]

If I remember correctly the mechanics of the Lucifer shields were never even hinted at

so for example the shields could work by diverting the attack into subspace or another dimension

[QuantumDelta]

Jigen Dazou!?

[TrashMan]

If I remember correctly the mechanics of the Lucifer shields were never even hinted at

so for example the shields could work by diverting the attack into subspace or another dimension

Precisely. But it still requires (or can transport) only a specific ammount of energy/matter per second.

Without unlimited/infinite power, there can be no limitless/infinite defense.

[Snail]

You may be forgetting the quote in FS1 that said "Unlike the shields on the Shivan fighters and bombers, this shield appears impervious, not merely resistant, to all of our weapons."

My personal belief is that all FS1 weapons in the world wouldn't be able to pierce the Lucifer's shield, but beam cannons being something rather different would be able to.


However, one thing I really don't agree with is using the guise of the "invulnerable" tag to support your theory. Game mechanics should never be used to talk about the universe. Or else, the Iceni has some kind of electromagnetic phase generator that allows it to survive when its hull is at 1% (ship-guardian). Or the Lysander actually self-destructed when the Ravana shot at it. Or ships appear out of thin air (or no air whatsoever since this is in space!) when they come out of a fighterbay.

Game mechanics and the universe are two very separate things. The fact that the Lucifer had an "invulnerable" tag doesn't mean ****.

[Commander Zane]

There is no such thing as invulnerabiltiy. It doesn't exist. It cannot exist.

Carbon Nanotubes HUUUURRRRRRR!!!!

 


 


 

[Snail]

The Lucifer's shields weren't carbon nanotubes now were they?