[Mika]

Not once in history has a child of this age brought a bomb into school with the intention of detonating it and carried it around in public gleefully showing it off.

Probably not detonating it in a school, but detonating it after school at some place they consider safe. What I have heard of 60s, gleefully showing it off has probably taken place. But the intend has been to blow it up somewhere where it doesn't cause damage and not to hurt anyone. As I said earlier, kids don't always understand what they are doing.

And damn even if the adults knew what they were doing, during one army exercise where live ammunition was used a guy kicked an unexploded mortar shell for several dozens of metres (several times) and didn't realize what he was doing. Despite being told NEVER EVER EVER to touch/go close anything that could resemble an unexploded piece in the beginning of EVERY single live ammunition exercise. It is just so fun to know several of your men could have been blown up to smithereens had the shell gone off - and that you were among them!

Wearing electronics in/woven at your clothes at the airport can be counted as your constitutional right but also bloody stupid if you ask me. You are free to pee at the electric fence but I wouldn't do that either.

Besides, who thinks that he's gonna be flagged for special interest by the intelligence agencies after participating in this thread? Yay for us!

[Aardwolf]

Ok, I just read all 10 pages, and, uh....

*sigh*

Do I think it's a bomb? That's kinda the hinge. You guys have been great saying "What if you see something you don't recognize" while you leave off "but it looks like a bomb to you"

Then there is something wrong with you.

[Scotty]

There may or may not be, but this topic, or any topic really, isn't the place to discuss that.

Really, the issue here is that you are hung-up on adding the caveat "but it looks like a bomb."  You've said yourself that you have no idea in hell what a bomb looks like, so how can you judge whether ANYTHING looks like a bomb?

[Kosh]

But here is the kicker, you just said "I'm in electronics class".

No I didn't, I said I built it in electronics class. Even then how would you know for sure? At my school we went to a special facility (the "skills center" that was shared by all three high schools in the district) to do this sort of thing that was pretty far off campus, so you wouldn't be able to ask the teacher. If I showed you this in the hallway of the high school, would you go tell the principle (who also has no idea what it is) that I might have a bomb?

He's working on a project that the rest of the class is also probably working on, not some homemade thing he made on his own.

It was an elective course and so only a handful at my school (out of 1500) actually would have taken the class, and even then the devices were more or less homemade. A generic black box with custom, hand soldered electronics in it. Anyone could have made something like that.

[Colonol Dekker]

This is getting pretty boring to be honest. I don't mind the odd bit of conjecture but this discussion is going round in more circles than the M25. . .

[General Battuta]

I concur.

[Colonol Dekker]

Could you post the image of lady command I made in grognards please for me as i'm in the bar at my army unit and can't upload from my phone?
 
I'd appreciate it mate

[Blue Lion]

No I didn't, I said I built it in electronics class. Even then how would you know for sure? At my school we went to a special facility (the "skills center" that was shared by all three high schools in the district) to do this sort of thing that was pretty far off campus, so you wouldn't be able to ask the teacher. If I showed you this in the hallway of the high school, would you go tell the principle (who also has no idea what it is) that I might have a bomb?

Well no, you didn't say "and then I was outside" so that was a minor clarification point. You made it in a class and took it outside? Ok, we'll go with that.

But to answer the question, absolutely I would. And I shall list the reasons.

1. My own personal instincts. My own personal safety. I'm safer if I go get someone.

2. School policy. I could be fired, even if it isn't harmful. I also put myself open to lawsuits. Can you imagine if a device did go off and when they asked my why I ignored school policy I said "guys on the internet told me not to"? I don't think I would have much money, or even be free at the end of that.

Basically it boils down to this, my instincts say to, my school tells me to, the police tell me to. Doing these things will never get me in trouble. And on the other side is people who haven't told me their degrees or qualifications in law enforcement, child psychology or child education are telling me to do the exact opposite which COULD put me in danger.

And you guys are amazed I'm not listening to you.

Ok, I just read all 10 pages, and, uh....

*sigh*

Do I think it's a bomb? That's kinda the hinge. You guys have been great saying "What if you see something you don't recognize" while you leave off "but it looks like a bomb to you"

Then there is something wrong with you.

That homemade bombs, made from everyday objects, can look like many things and a layperson who can't identify it has to get someone who can?

You'd rather let me, who's not qualified, make the final decision?

This is getting pretty boring to be honest. I don't mind the odd bit of conjecture but this discussion is going round in more circles than the M25. . .

I'm just amazed. People who I'm almost positive aren't educators or law enforcement are telling me to ignore those people and listen to them.... well just because.

[General Battuta]

Could you post the image of lady command I made in grognards please for me as i'm in the bar at my army unit and can't upload from my phone?
 
I'd appreciate it mate

It's probably best just to let it peter out rather than to lock it.

I'm just amazed. People who I'm almost positive aren't educators or law enforcement are telling me to ignore those people and listen to them.... well just because.

Nope, you haven't been told that.

Rereading the thread may be productive.

[Blue Lion]

I'm just amazed. People who I'm almost positive aren't educators or law enforcement are telling me to ignore those people and listen to them.... well just because.

Nope, you haven't been told that.

Rereading the thread may be productive.
[/quote]

I've had people in this thread tell me to pick up the device. I've had people tell me to not bother because the odds are low. I've been told to talk to the kid and get his word for it, even if I don't know what's going on.

Every one of these things is basically the opposite of what I'm supposed to do.

"Get someone who can make a decision"

It doesn't say unless he's a good kid, or he's too young, or they're really rare, or it's a technical school. There really aren't too many "buts" in this argument.

[General Battuta]

And, again, the fact that you think it's a bomb in the first place is the problem.

A kid can use a lot of school supplies for self-injury. Like a paper clip, or a spare blade for a pencil sharpener. Why aren't you reporting those? Just like this 'unknown device', they are far more likely to have an innocent purpose.

[Blue Lion]

Here they are

"You confiscate it, take it to someone who knows what the hell they are talking about (science teacher, maybe?  If that fails, sure, call the police), and then when you told by that someone that it is NOT a bomb, you give it back at the end of the day."

"And if you think the kid might be lying, take it and call his parents and ask them if they know anything about it."

"If the device is a bomb, sucks for you."

"Why evacuate the whole school through the hallways where the "bomb" is instead of getting the thing out of the school? "

"No, you're not, but if he tells you it's a motion detector and shows you how it works, then you probably could. Especially when you work at a tech school that encourages stuff like this."

"Nonetheless, I'd trust the kid."

"If he lies to you, then you're ****ed. Bomb goes off, people die."

"It should take 30 seconds to verify that it's not a bomb."

"HERE!  Right here.  You yourself have said that you can't evaluate whether a given device is a bomb or not.  Fact of the matter is, if you don't know what the device is, odds are extremely in favor of it not being a bomb."

This is merely a partial list of all the things in this thread that have told me to do the exact opposite of what I'm supposed to do. OR telling me that when I follow their advice and just ignore it and I get blown up "oh well"

[Blue Lion]

And, again, the fact that you think it's a bomb in the first place is the problem.

A kid can use a lot of school supplies for self-injury. Like a paper clip, or a spare blade for a pencil sharpener. Why aren't you reporting those? Just like this 'unknown device', they are far more likely to have an innocent purpose.

Why is it a problem? I don't go running down the hall screaming "bomb" I don't tackle the kid. I don't dial 911 with my phone. I walk over and get someone. And I say "look at that"

In my years now of being in schools, both as a student and a teacher I have NEVER EVER EVER EVER seen a device I thought could be a bomb. I have seem some crazy things but I have never thought "bomb".

I've never walked up to a principal and said "look at that, could be a bomb." Years.

However, if I DO see one I WILL go tell someone. Not only because I have to, but I want to. It's safer for me.

[General Battuta]

Because that's not what happened in this incident, which is what we're discussing.

[SpardaSon21]

BL, no one is saying if you think something is a bomb you shouldn't do something about it.  Everyone is stating that if your first thought about any unknown electronic device is "It may be a bomb.", you have a problem.

[Blue Lion]

Because that's not what happened in this incident, which is what we're discussing.

Yea I know, she thought it was. How do we know? She called the cops after talking to the kid. Was she wrong? Hell yea. Did she follow procedure?

Here's the problem, and why people calling for reform are going to have issues.

The only people who could tell you if it's a bomb are the incompetent people. You can't have a cop or a mechanical engineer follow these people around.

I'm just curious, are you trained in child psychology? Not a dig at you, I'm curious. Do you know words to look for? Behaviors? Do you know what and how to ask? What approach to take? I don't know, I don't have to know. I don't question the kid, I don't decide to call the police.

It's great to say the plan needs to be fixed, but it all hinges on the decisions of people who you don't trust to do it right. You say they don't know what they're doing, what can you do? Send them to bomb school?

I'm telling you right now, any plan that proposes not escalating because the people are untrained and the odds are low just will not fly. They're going to try to catch every single one and most of them will be false.

[Blue Lion]

BL, no one is saying if you think something is a bomb you shouldn't do something about it.  Everyone is stating that if your first thought about any unknown electronic device is "It may be a bomb.", you have a problem.

But it's not. And I've said that dozens of times. I see unknown items all the time. And I've never thought they were bombs. In my entire life, outside of television, I have never seen an item I seriously considered to be "bomb like".

However, even if I am completely wrong if I DO ever have that thought, there is no doubt in my mind as to my course of action. None. The alternative is not acceptable to me.

[SpardaSon21]

Okay BL, replace "you" with "Vice Principal of a technology-oriented school".  No one here is questioning what to do about a potential bomb, we're just questioning the probability that an electronic device is a bomb and not something innocent.

[Stealth]

i love how i can read page 1, then jump right to page 10 (skipping pages 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9) and it's like the conversation is exactly the same.

wow people.

yes - i can honestly say that if i saw a kid walking around with something like that at school, i would MOST DEFINATELY tell the teacher.

by your logic, if you saw a kid at school concealing a gun, you wouldn't tell anyone, because IT'S PROBABLY AN EMPTY, UNLOADED GUN!!! DUH!!!

c'mon people... c'mon. we've seen enough kids bringing weapons to school IN THIS COUNTRY to warrant this response.  I think everyone reacted just the way they should have.

[Colonol Dekker]

Thats the best validating synonym so far