[General Battuta]

yes - i can honestly say that if i saw a kid walking around with something like that at school, i would MOST DEFINATELY tell the teacher.

by your logic, if you saw a kid at school concealing a gun, you wouldn't tell anyone, because IT'S PROBABLY AN EMPTY, UNLOADED GUN!!! DUH!!!

No, that's not what occurs by anybody's logic.

What we're saying is 'if you see a kid at school concealing a cell phone, don't tell anyone, because it's probably not a gun.'

c'mon people... c'mon. we've seen enough kids bringing weapons to school IN THIS COUNTRY

No, actually, we haven't. It's incredibly rare.

[Blue Lion]

I've personally seen at least 5 instances of weapons in a school, 2 of which were guns (or were at least BB guns).

There is a reason schools have metal detectors and police officers as security guards.

[Blue Lion]

Okay BL, replace "you" with "Vice Principal of a technology-oriented school".  No one here is questioning what to do about a potential bomb, we're just questioning the probability that an electronic device is a bomb and not something innocent.

You don't run probability. You don't sit down with the parents of kids who were hurt and tell them you didn't follow your gut instinct because really, what are the odds?

They want to catch every single one. Will they? Probably not. Will a lot be false alarms? Surely. But these are people who are at their basics the protectors of children while they're there.

I doubt I could sleep if I saw an object that I genuinely thought was a harmful device to the children in my care and I did nothing. It's the same with child abuse. I'm not a doctor. I probably might not tell the difference between abuse and rough housing kids. I don't think I could NOT say anything. Ignoring the fact I'm almost required to tell, it would just weigh too much on me.

To me they are the same. One just happens more often than the other.

[BloodEagle]

@all: New arguments (without the 4kids, preferably), please.

[Grizzly]

There is a reason schools have metal detectors and police officers as security guards.

... They have?

[Colonol Dekker]

This whole topic is a mishmash. . .

[Kosh]

This whole topic is a mishmash. . .

Not really, it fits within the general theme of school security.

You don't run probability.

You don't run it, you make your decisions according to it. We have an entire industry based on this concept.

EDIT: Make that two whole industries.

[Colonol Dekker]

It's lost cohesion.
 
And I spy two more industries.

[Scotty]

There is a reason schools have metal detectors and police officers as security guards.

Damn, where do you teach?

My school has a nice sign saying "Visitors, please use this door" on the main doors.  No other door has it, and at any given time, half of them are unlocked.  I have never seen a metal detector in our school, and the only police officers that ever come are the D.A.R.E. guys.  Our "security guards" exist only at lunch to keep kids from leaving and getting McDonalds or cutting in line.

[Kosh]

There is a reason schools have metal detectors and police officers as security guards.

Damn, where do you teach?

My school has a nice sign saying "Visitors, please use this door" on the main doors.  No other door has it, and at any given time, half of them are unlocked.  I have never seen a metal detector in our school, and the only police officers that ever come are the D.A.R.E. guys.  Our "security guards" exist only at lunch to keep kids from leaving and getting McDonalds or cutting in line.

Those are usually the inner city schools. Since many of them are gang infested it does make sense to do that, but in the suburban schools I've never seen one. My old high school did have a sheriff's deputy stationed there, but the other security gaurds were just that, security, not a part of the police force. But still no metal detectors.

[Dilmah G]

There is a reason schools have metal detectors and police officers as security guards.

Jeez man, I'm glad I don't go to that school.

[Blue Lion]

Inner city schools have metal detectors. My high school (and every high school in the area) has at least 1 security guard. I have never been to a high school in the Maryland area that DIDN'T have an armed security guard (not always cops). Suburbs included. Cops are actually cheaper than hiring your own security force I do believe, not sure though. I just always see local cops.

It's been that way since at least the late 90s for me.

That's my whole point. Maybe you guys went to super cool schools with no crime. It's probably more likely it was really low key and it was so infrequent you just never thought of it.

The fact that a lot of guys here have said "They hassled me for _____" just tells me it's everywhere. Maybe I just live in a hotbed of crime but if someone told me a kid brought a bomb to his school in our district or whatever, wouldn't surprise me. I've seen kids do nasty things.

[Kosh]

That's my whole point. Maybe you guys went to super cool schools with no crime.

I went to schools that had periodic bomb threats requiring full school evacs, fights, massive petty theft, and the usual assortment of messed up kids that were waiting to go off, plus an administration that generally didn't care if you were bullied. Plus there were also the usual assortment of kids that had to report to parole officers. Crime free? Hardly.

[Blue Lion]

That's my whole point. Maybe you guys went to super cool schools with no crime.

I went to schools that had periodic bomb threats requiring full school evacs, fights, massive petty theft, and the usual assortment of messed up kids that were waiting to go off, plus an administration that generally didn't care if you were bullied. Plus there were also the usual assortment of kids that had to report to parole officers. Crime free? Hardly.

And you were the only one who didn't go "Oh my god, metal detectors?! Security guards?!?!" So you probably know just how bad some schools can get, examples obviously above.

But on to the real question about teachers in your school. So they shouldn't go get someone to check out a device because why again? One would think a school with that amount of issues would be one to have teachers on a stronger lookout for bomb like things.

I doubt your teachers were trained police officers, what did they do in events that needed cops? What do you think teachers do in terms of fights, attacks, drug deals, etc etc? You get the administration and if they can't handle it, they call the cops. Just because bomb is the rarest of the rare doesn't mean you stop doing it.

[General Battuta]

The fact that anyone thought this kid had a bomb in the first place is disturbing. The fact that the teacher didn't walk up, ask him, and get a good explanation is doubly disturbing. The fact that the problem escalated after the police and arson teams were called in is just absurd.

[Blue Lion]

The fact that anyone thought this kid had a bomb in the first place is disturbing. The fact that the teacher didn't walk up, ask him, and get a good explanation is doubly disturbing. The fact that the problem escalated after the police and arson teams were called in is just absurd.

Why? Because it's never happened before? It has. Because people think kids can't hurt other kids and teachers? They do (not often with bombs).

So why did the school and police keep going then? You can't say it was because of a heightened sense of paranoia because then they would have thought it was a real bomb. They either thought it was a bomb or they knew it wasn't and just decided to mess with the kid for laughs or something.

I'm curious as to what the solution is. Ask the kid and wait for a good explanation? Who gets to decide what good is? The teacher? This is just what happened here. They didn't believe him, so they called the cops.

[General Battuta]

I've stated my position. We've already proceeded to explore it with no results. I'm not interested in debating it further.

[Blue Lion]

You haven't stated anything. You've given no new protocols, no new ideas. Nothing for teachers or administrators to look for. Nothing you could put in a school handbook or police guide.

You've given no insight into what teachers should be looking for. Any new child psychology tips to help point out at risk children from not at risk children that isn't already used.

You've given no safety checklist to avoid calling the cops. You've given no updates to police procedure to make sure they don't do it again.

You haven't gone through the police procedure to show us the glaring mistakes other than through the use of hindsight.  

All you've done is come in and complain that the current situation is absurd but offer no new plans to deal with it.

It's like saying politicians are corrupt and  we need to fix it, well that's great. How do we do that?

[General Battuta]

I'm not interested in further discussion.

[Blue Lion]

Ok then, there are other people reading and posting in this thread.