Author Topic: Where the heck did those juggernauts jump to, and other assorted questions  (Read 9773 times)

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Where the heck did those juggernauts jump to, and other assorted questions
So I was playing FS2 again and it suddenly hit me.  Where the hell did all those 80 juggernauts during the Capella supernova jump to?  They weren't on a node, and even Shivans can't do inter-system jumps without a node. So basically they did an in-system jump and still died.

They lost 80 juggernauts to supernova what was basically an empty system what the hell is up with that.


Also since you're reading this thread, mind telling me the best user campaigns for FSOpen?

 

Offline Jeff Vader

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Re: Where the heck did those juggernauts jump to, and other assorted questions
So I was playing FS2 again and it suddenly hit me.  Where the hell did all those 80 juggernauts during the Capella supernova jump to?  They weren't on a node, and even Shivans can't do inter-system jumps without a node. So basically they did an in-system jump and still died.

They lost 80 juggernauts to supernova what was basically an empty system what the hell is up with that.
That is open for speculation. Some believe they jumped to a galaxy far, far away and made Han Solo go like this. It is also possible that they needed a supernova for something. Maybe they just wanted to show off?

mind telling me the best user campaigns for FSOpen?
JAD.
23:40 < achillion > EveningTea: ass
23:40 < achillion > wait no
23:40 < achillion > evilbagel: ass
23:40 < EveningTea > ?
23:40 < achillion > 2-letter tab complete failure

14:08 < achillion > there's too much talk of butts and dongs in here
14:08 < achillion > the level of discourse has really plummeted
14:08 < achillion > Let's talk about politics instead
14:08 <@The_E > butts and dongs are part of #hard-light's brand now
14:08 <@The_E > well
14:08 <@The_E > EvilBagel's brand, at least

01:06 < T-Rog > welp
01:07 < T-Rog > I've got to take some very strong antibiotics
01:07 < achillion > penis infection?
01:08 < T-Rog > Chlamydia
01:08 < achillion > O.o
01:09 < achillion > well
01:09 < achillion > I guess that happens
01:09 < T-Rog > at least it's curable
01:09 < achillion > yeah
01:10 < T-Rog > I take it you weren't actually expecting it to be a penis infection
01:10 < achillion > I was not

14:04 < achillion > Sometimes the way to simplify is to just have a habit and not think about it too much
14:05 < achillion > until stuff explodes
14:05 < achillion > then you start thinking about it

22:16 < T-Rog > I don't know how my gf would feel about Jewish conspiracy porn

15:41 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
15:47 < EvilBagel> butt
15:51 < Achillion> yes
15:53 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]

18:53 < Achillion> Dicks are fun

21:41 < MatthTheGeek> you can't spell assassin without two asses

20:05 < sigtau> i'm mining titcoins from now on

00:31 < oldlaptop> Drunken antisocial educated freezing hicks with good Internet == Finland stereotype

11:46 <-INFO > Kobrar [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
11:50 < achtung> Surely you've heard of DVDA
11:50 < achtung> Double Vaginal Double ANal
11:51 < Kobrar> ...
11:51 <-INFO > Kobrar [[email protected]] has left #hard-light []

 

Offline Dragon

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Re: Where the heck did those juggernauts jump to, and other assorted questions
I have no idea what they were up to and why they blew up a star in first place, check Tides Of Darkness for one possible explaination.

Also since you're reading this thread, mind telling me the best user campaigns for FSOpen?
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=67058.0
You may like to look into this thread.

 
Re: Where the heck did those juggernauts jump to, and other assorted questions
It's basically canon that they can't do an inter-system jump without a node. It's been shown multiple times in the game, and even outright mentioned by Command on some cutscene or briefing.

Question is, did they have time to jump near a node, slowboat inside, and jump out of the system? Not very likely, but then, might have well stayed near the sun and died instead of aimlessly jumping around.

All in all, weird stuff

 

Offline Retsof

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Re: Where the heck did those juggernauts jump to, and other assorted questions
Some thik that the collapsing star created a "supernode" of sorts, where they went is still a mystery.  Also, remember that the Gamma Draconis node is still open, they could have just jupmed out there before the blast got to them.  (the speed of light limt would have bough them a bit more time).

Now, best campaigns:  There's FSPort and Silent Threat Reborn (although I have yet to play the latter), Derilict, Sync, Trancend, Blue Planet, and many others.
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Offline The E

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Re: Where the heck did those juggernauts jump to, and other assorted questions
If there is one thing that should be clear, it's that the Shivans know much, much more about Subspace than the GTVA does. In other words, just because the GTVA can't do something doesn't mean the Shivans can't do it either.
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Offline Snail

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Re: Where the heck did those juggernauts jump to, and other assorted questions
If you think about it, the Shivans multiple times used unstable nodes to circumvent Terran blockades in FS1. This shows that they at least can use more unstable nodes than the GTA and PVN can.

 
Re: Where the heck did those juggernauts jump to, and other assorted questions
If there is one thing that should be clear, it's that the Shivans know much, much more about Subspace than the GTVA does. In other words, just because the GTVA can't do something doesn't mean the Shivans can't do it either.

It's not so much that Command said so, as much as all the times they were limited strategically and tactically by the mechanics of node jumping, just like everybody else.  In all the campaign, they never once not used a node, even if that would have given them extreme advantages and made them untrackable.

Some thik that the collapsing star created a "supernode" of sorts, where they went is still a mystery.  Also, remember that the Gamma Draconis node is still open, they could have just jupmed out there before the blast got to them.  (the speed of light limt would have bough them a bit more time).

Now, best campaigns:  There's FSPort and Silent Threat Reborn (although I have yet to play the latter), Derilict, Sync, Trancend, Blue Planet, and many others.

Supernode theory is something I hadn't thought of. It makes sense, as much as these things can make sense I guess.   But the Gamma Draconis theory I doubt is viable. Throughout the campaign, never was a ship able to land anywhere near a node when jumping out. It is assumed that it is impossible to get closer than 2-3 kilometers from its edge, or else you 'd never have had to escort fleeing ships.


If you think about it, the Shivans multiple times used unstable nodes to circumvent Terran blockades in FS1. This shows that they at least can use more unstable nodes than the GTA and PVN can.

It would have had to be a pretty huge node, if it could encircle 80 juggernauts placed in a circle around a star.

 

Offline Snail

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Re: Where the heck did those juggernauts jump to, and other assorted questions
It would have had to be a pretty huge node, if it could encircle 80 juggernauts placed in a circle around a star.
It could be possible that the Supernova actually created a node, which is a very popular theory in the community. Remember Petrarch's closing speech?

 

Offline TopAce

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Re: Where the heck did those juggernauts jump to, and other assorted questions
Who said they used one node? :P

Shivans are known to cause surprises.
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Offline The E

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Re: Where the heck did those juggernauts jump to, and other assorted questions
It's not so much that Command said so, as much as all the times they were limited strategically and tactically by the mechanics of node jumping, just like everybody else.  In all the campaign, they never once not used a node, even if that would have given them extreme advantages and made them untrackable.

I stand by my point. The Shivans exhibit a marked inconsistency in their tactics and equipment, almost as if they are fighting with one hand tied behind their collective backs. And the point is not that they would need nodes to make jumps, but rather what the Shivans see as a usable node in the first place.

(Besides, even intrasystem jumps can cover enormous volumes of space, several light hours at least. They have all the time they need to prepare a proper exit with that much time.
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Offline headdie

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Re: Where the heck did those juggernauts jump to, and other assorted questions
there is also the theory that the Shivans were born from subspace so perhaps the destruction of the Capella star opened a different type of node which took them to a variation of subspace that was home to them
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Offline Thaeris

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Re: Where the heck did those juggernauts jump to, and other assorted questions
Note that the precise mechanics of a FS subspace jump are NOT well defined - this is advantageous for storytelling purposes until one starts asking questions.  :p

However, we are given the prompt that jumps have much to do with gravity wells/mysterious energies and the like. By collapsing a star, there is the possibility that the Shivans would have indeed made use of a "supernode" of sorts. It's all up for speculation, though I think that's the best one out there.
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Offline Lucika

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Re: Where the heck did those juggernauts jump to, and other assorted questions
Well, we don't know what was the subspacy green thingy anyway :D
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Offline Bob-san

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Re: Where the heck did those juggernauts jump to, and other assorted questions
Well, we don't know what was the subspacy green thingy anyway :D
Extradimensional travel is not something easily explained by video games. :p That said, in the context of a video game, the question would still remain; if a supernova was needed for travel, why Capella? Was its location or interactions significant? Was it part of a sort of shock-and-awe campaign? Was it a prior established route? Was Capella meeting a specific requirement for a jump? Lots of ideas but, ultimately, Freespace Canon says that Capella went supernova and the Shivans apparently disappeared.
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Offline The E

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Re: Where the heck did those juggernauts jump to, and other assorted questions
The answer you are looking for is in another castle, unfortunately.

Can't tell you where, though. There should be a modeller inbound to explain it, though.


EDIT: Wrong thread, sorry
« Last Edit: January 21, 2010, 05:39:13 pm by The E »
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Offline Snail

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Re: Where the heck did those juggernauts jump to, and other assorted questions
Well, we don't know what was the subspacy green thingy anyway :D
Extradimensional travel is not something easily explained by video games. :p That said, in the context of a video game, the question would still remain; if a supernova was needed for travel, why Capella? Was its location or interactions significant? Was it part of a sort of shock-and-awe campaign? Was it a prior established route? Was Capella meeting a specific requirement for a jump? Lots of ideas but, ultimately, Freespace Canon says that Capella went supernova and the Shivans apparently disappeared.
If we make the assumption that inter-dimensional travel is achievable in a similar fashion to inter-system subspace travel, then sure maybe the Capella star was some kind of Supernode; its location just as significant as the physical space around inter-system Jump Nodes.

I sound smart.

 

Offline Klaustrophobia

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Re: Where the heck did those juggernauts jump to, and other assorted questions
It was always my take that the Shivans were doing their own thing and only even bothered with the Terrans and Vasudans because they stumbled across them, like swatting away a fly or something.  This being the case, they blew up Cappella for their own reasons, not to kill civilizations.  One theory I came up with is the Shivans were deliberately creating a nebula to mine gas/energy/whatever else they do in one, and were also probably responsible for the nebula beyond the portal.
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Offline Bob-san

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Re: Where the heck did those juggernauts jump to, and other assorted questions
It was always my take that the Shivans were doing their own thing and only even bothered with the Terrans and Vasudans because they stumbled across them, like swatting away a fly or something.  This being the case, they blew up Cappella for their own reasons, not to kill civilizations.  One theory I came up with is the Shivans were deliberately creating a nebula to mine gas/energy/whatever else they do in one, and were also probably responsible for the nebula beyond the portal.
That's another thing that's never really addressed. It seems (by their actions) that Shivans are either a collective intelligence or the game's very definition of the Shivans is (by their strangeness) incorrect. We might have found varieties of the worker bees (various fighters perhaps) but we still really don't know much about anything bigger than a bomber. On the other hand, perhaps the Ancients really did have a hand in the Shivan's reaction; it's stated that Ancient technology was not much better than the GTVA's, except for that they were decades ahead in subspace travel (and perhaps propulsion?). The REAL question is why the Ancients were to ineffective against the Shivans; there's a lot of Shivans but there's also a lot of Ancients. Were their weapons really the quality of the FS1-intro missions? That's pretty darn weak to squash a small bug. Would they only advance 40 years in weapons manufacturing during the Shivan conquest? Have they never learned about systems redundancy?
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Offline IceFire

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Re: Where the heck did those juggernauts jump to, and other assorted questions
After years I feel pretty comfortable on a couple of things:

1) The Terrans and Vasudans didn't matter so much to them in FS2.  The supernova was something that the GTVA was witness to... rather than it being directed at them.

2) The Shivans are supposed to be the cosmic destroyers and the cosmic preservers according to FS1.  Their contact in FS2 may have been premature...

3) The command briefs suggest that there was an immense subspace field being generated around the Capella star.  The star was artificially forced into a supernova state. Since we know that subspace travel is highly dependent on gravity wells of stars ... manipulating a star on such a level may allow for some sort of special circumstances.

The rest I'm not too comfortable about. Where they went and why are total mysteries. Sort of a fun mystery to have.  Honestly... if there were to be a continuation of the story I think it'd be a 100 years or more later with no sign of the Shivans.
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