Author Topic: BP: War in Heaven discussion  (Read 550557 times)

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Offline Iain Baker

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
What do the Vishnans want with us – a hypothesis

I have been thinking recently (I know, dangerous right?) and I am left wondering why the Vishnans are acting so cagey. Why are they only communicating with the Elders? The rest of the UEF appears unaware of the Vishnans existence or their influence. I suspect the Vishnans told the Elders to keep quiet about their existence and involvement. Why so secretive? And why have they been so vague even with the Elders as to what their plans for humanity are?

I suspect that the Vishnans need us to become something, but that this ‘something’ is something no sane intelligence would willingly become. Therefore they are lying.

Perhaps they need humanity to become something – perhaps a summed psyche entity that can contain / repel / fight etc. the Great Darkness. Fighting the GD may be an eternal struggle and painful / damaging / horrifying in ways we cannot conceive of. Convincing an entire civilisation (or at least a sufficiently large percentage thereof) to willingly sacrifice themselves in such a way might be impossible, even for the Vishnans.

So instead they trick the Elders by giving them vague ideals of achieving a state of enlightenment / paradise etc. and then get the Elders to groom the rest of the civilisation in preparation. By the time the civilisation realises what is actually instore for them it is too late.
It may also be that becoming a summed psyche would essentially mean the ‘death of the of self’ for all members that comprise it. See some of the works and presentations by Peter Watts to see why a hive mind really isn’t something you would want to be part of:
 
https://youtu.be/v4uwaw_5Q3I


I’ll admit these musings were not an entirely original idea, and were in fact inspired by the game Clive Barker’s Jericho. Near the end the Jericho team learn that to contain the First Born (amoral godlike child entity that hates humanity and intends to exterminate us wholesale) they will have to bind themselves to the breach to its dimension. They are told this will be like a dreamless sleep. However, one of the team realises that this is a lie, and that this binding will mean agonising pain and torment for all eternity – not something he is willing to accept regardless of the stakes involved. The videos below show this in sufficiently gory detail.

https://youtu.be/GRexdhrTsWM?t=3017

https://youtu.be/GRexdhrTsWM

Perhaps this is the predicament the Vishnans are in. They may be benevolent, or at least neutral, but need to manipulate and sacrifice us in order to preserve the universe. As they say in Hot Fuzz “For the greater good”. It has been stated that they (Vishnans) are running out of time and candidates. Perhaps previous species they have attempted to groom saw threw the ruse and thus rejected them, just like our mini-gunned friend in the videos. To stop the truth getting out to other civilisations they (Vishnans) would then need to order a cull, thus letting the Shivans do their omnicidal thing.

Could this scenario account for some, or possibly even ALL of the Shivan’s past exterminations? Were they all the result of cull orders decreed by the Vishnans? Do the Vishnans have the blood of countless species on their ethereal hands?

Speaking of the Shivans, I couldn’t figure out before why they should care about a Braham successor. Perhaps it is linked to this? Since the GD already exists simply exterminating any life that could turn into a GD as a preventative measure wouldn’t work as it is too late for that. What’s more doing so would prevent said species from becoming something that the Vishnans could use to fight the GD.

Just some late-night head cannon musings but I think I might be on to something here. Feel free to comment or ignore entirely :p
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Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
What do the Vishnans want with us – a hypothesis

I have been thinking recently (I know, dangerous right?) and I am left wondering why the Vishnans are acting so cagey. Why are they only communicating with the Elders? The rest of the UEF appears unaware of the Vishnans existence or their influence. I suspect the Vishnans told the Elders to keep quiet about their existence and involvement. Why so secretive? And why have they been so vague even with the Elders as to what their plans for humanity are?

I suspect that the Vishnans need us to become something, but that this ‘something’ is something no sane intelligence would willingly become. Therefore they are lying.

Perhaps they need humanity to become something – perhaps a summed psyche entity that can contain / repel / fight etc. the Great Darkness. Fighting the GD may be an eternal struggle and painful / damaging / horrifying in ways we cannot conceive of. Convincing an entire civilisation (or at least a sufficiently large percentage thereof) to willingly sacrifice themselves in such a way might be impossible, even for the Vishnans.

So instead they trick the Elders by giving them vague ideals of achieving a state of enlightenment / paradise etc. and then get the Elders to groom the rest of the civilisation in preparation. By the time the civilisation realises what is actually instore for them it is too late.
It may also be that becoming a summed psyche would essentially mean the ‘death of the of self’ for all members that comprise it. See some of the works and presentations by Peter Watts to see why a hive mind really isn’t something you would want to be part of:
 
https://youtu.be/v4uwaw_5Q3I


I’ll admit these musings were not an entirely original idea, and were in fact inspired by the game Clive Barker’s Jericho. Near the end the Jericho team learn that to contain the First Born (amoral godlike child entity that hates humanity and intends to exterminate us wholesale) they will have to bind themselves to the breach to its dimension. They are told this will be like a dreamless sleep. However, one of the team realises that this is a lie, and that this binding will mean agonising pain and torment for all eternity – not something he is willing to accept regardless of the stakes involved. The videos below show this in sufficiently gory detail.

https://youtu.be/GRexdhrTsWM?t=3017

https://youtu.be/GRexdhrTsWM

Perhaps this is the predicament the Vishnans are in. They may be benevolent, or at least neutral, but need to manipulate and sacrifice us in order to preserve the universe. As they say in Hot Fuzz “For the greater good”. It has been stated that they (Vishnans) are running out of time and candidates. Perhaps previous species they have attempted to groom saw threw the ruse and thus rejected them, just like our mini-gunned friend in the videos. To stop the truth getting out to other civilisations they (Vishnans) would then need to order a cull, thus letting the Shivans do their omnicidal thing.

Could this scenario account for some, or possibly even ALL of the Shivan’s past exterminations? Were they all the result of cull orders decreed by the Vishnans? Do the Vishnans have the blood of countless species on their ethereal hands?

Speaking of the Shivans, I couldn’t figure out before why they should care about a Braham successor. Perhaps it is linked to this? Since the GD already exists simply exterminating any life that could turn into a GD as a preventative measure wouldn’t work as it is too late for that. What’s more doing so would prevent said species from becoming something that the Vishnans could use to fight the GD.

Just some late-night head cannon musings but I think I might be on to something here. Feel free to comment or ignore entirely :p

Very nice post!

With reference to Vishnans lying: There is an entry of the fiction viewer that the Vasudan language is used to pass on secrets. Its a complex language, and the sentences have different contexts are hidden in the same sentence. McCarthy says that vasudan is a very crafty language. They also say that knowing all the secrets of the universe can also drive a person mad, and that's why they conceal the secrets in the language and art (i guess) This may also be the reason why the Vishnans had a different meaning the (ie the way Laporte sees it and the way Samuel Bei sees it)

With reference to the Great Darkness: More pressing question is what will happen to it after it has crossed its limit of growing? another bigbang? another blackhole? or will it be the Dawn war all over again? Why are the vishnans interested in *humans* particularly and not the vasudans much? They could have spoken to the vasudans thru nagari, turned them against the humans, and then finally a decisive Vishnan and Vasudan vs Terran war which made the vasudans become the successor of the Brahmans?

with reference to the Shivans: They were calculated. A violent species which are bent to destroy the races which are deemed not worthy by the Vishnans (previously the brahmans?) and since there is no brahmans, the Vishnans used to order the shivans and they used to obey.

The Great Darkness looms over the sentient races, and to (combat/evade?) that situation, they might be jury rigging races for a successor for the brahmans, then might merge them to the Great Psyche as they were not the optimal successor, then might wait for a new race to emerge and continue the cycle until a worthy race has been found and will be ascended as the brahmans.

Possible theory where the big bang/creation of universe may also be a result of the dawn war/unleashing the next great darkness?

GTVA/UEF were almost technologically as advanced as the vishnans. Hence, they might have planned to merge them to the summed psyche. So why the Deception? Its like you want to give medicine to a kid. But then the kid will fight you as long as you treat it like youre giving it medicine. Instead, you sit with the child, you begin to tell the story/history of medicine, and you scale it down to a kid's level. Hence you omit all the confusing and complex details out, and in turn, you are just achieving what you really wanted: the kid to eat the medicine. As the kid grows, the kid will begin to explore and learn, because the kid is now interested with the vague details. One day, he might be in the same position which you are in: to administer medicine to a kid and the kid doesnt like it.

These are my thoughts, and i'd love inputs and corrections :D

My way of conveying what i talk may be confusing/may make no sense, please bear with me 😅
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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Can I ask a quick question? How the hell do you people find such interesting music for BP? I swear I am impressed every time I play. Like , what's the vetting process? (sorry if this is the wrong thread, didn't feel like making a new one.)

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Mostly Darius! Dude has good taste.

 
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Kinda a bug i think.

in the wih credits, the player can order all the ships to depart and stuffs, they can even order all ships to form on the wing. i have encountered this twice.
Requiescat in pace

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Can I ask a quick question? How the hell do you people find such interesting music for BP? I swear I am impressed every time I play. Like , what's the vetting process? (sorry if this is the wrong thread, didn't feel like making a new one.)

My guess is much of it goes by feel and throwing music into the mission to see what fits best. You don't need to be a musician to have good taste in music.
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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Well Scroll has some great music too. Perhabs you don't just need a good taste of music but a certain "**** the lawyers this is fair use"-attitude as well. ;)

 

Offline Iain Baker

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
What do the Vishnans want with us – a hypothesis

I have been thinking recently (I know, dangerous right?) and I am left wondering why the Vishnans are acting so cagey. Why are they only communicating with the Elders? The rest of the UEF appears unaware of the Vishnans existence or their influence. I suspect the Vishnans told the Elders to keep quiet about their existence and involvement. Why so secretive? And why have they been so vague even with the Elders as to what their plans for humanity are?

I suspect that the Vishnans need us to become something, but that this ‘something’ is something no sane intelligence would willingly become. Therefore they are lying.

Perhaps they need humanity to become something – perhaps a summed psyche entity that can contain / repel / fight etc. the Great Darkness. Fighting the GD may be an eternal struggle and painful / damaging / horrifying in ways we cannot conceive of. Convincing an entire civilisation (or at least a sufficiently large percentage thereof) to willingly sacrifice themselves in such a way might be impossible, even for the Vishnans.

So instead they trick the Elders by giving them vague ideals of achieving a state of enlightenment / paradise etc. and then get the Elders to groom the rest of the civilisation in preparation. By the time the civilisation realises what is actually instore for them it is too late.
It may also be that becoming a summed psyche would essentially mean the ‘death of the of self’ for all members that comprise it. See some of the works and presentations by Peter Watts to see why a hive mind really isn’t something you would want to be part of:
 
https://youtu.be/v4uwaw_5Q3I


I’ll admit these musings were not an entirely original idea, and were in fact inspired by the game Clive Barker’s Jericho. Near the end the Jericho team learn that to contain the First Born (amoral godlike child entity that hates humanity and intends to exterminate us wholesale) they will have to bind themselves to the breach to its dimension. They are told this will be like a dreamless sleep. However, one of the team realises that this is a lie, and that this binding will mean agonising pain and torment for all eternity – not something he is willing to accept regardless of the stakes involved. The videos below show this in sufficiently gory detail.

https://youtu.be/GRexdhrTsWM?t=3017

https://youtu.be/GRexdhrTsWM

Perhaps this is the predicament the Vishnans are in. They may be benevolent, or at least neutral, but need to manipulate and sacrifice us in order to preserve the universe. As they say in Hot Fuzz “For the greater good”. It has been stated that they (Vishnans) are running out of time and candidates. Perhaps previous species they have attempted to groom saw threw the ruse and thus rejected them, just like our mini-gunned friend in the videos. To stop the truth getting out to other civilisations they (Vishnans) would then need to order a cull, thus letting the Shivans do their omnicidal thing.

Could this scenario account for some, or possibly even ALL of the Shivan’s past exterminations? Were they all the result of cull orders decreed by the Vishnans? Do the Vishnans have the blood of countless species on their ethereal hands?

Speaking of the Shivans, I couldn’t figure out before why they should care about a Braham successor. Perhaps it is linked to this? Since the GD already exists simply exterminating any life that could turn into a GD as a preventative measure wouldn’t work as it is too late for that. What’s more doing so would prevent said species from becoming something that the Vishnans could use to fight the GD.

Just some late-night head cannon musings but I think I might be on to something here. Feel free to comment or ignore entirely :p

Very nice post!

With reference to Vishnans lying: There is an entry of the fiction viewer that the Vasudan language is used to pass on secrets. Its a complex language, and the sentences have different contexts are hidden in the same sentence. McCarthy says that vasudan is a very crafty language. They also say that knowing all the secrets of the universe can also drive a person mad, and that's why they conceal the secrets in the language and art (i guess) This may also be the reason why the Vishnans had a different meaning the (ie the way Laporte sees it and the way Samuel Bei sees it)

With reference to the Great Darkness: More pressing question is what will happen to it after it has crossed its limit of growing? another bigbang? another blackhole? or will it be the Dawn war all over again? Why are the vishnans interested in *humans* particularly and not the vasudans much? They could have spoken to the vasudans thru nagari, turned them against the humans, and then finally a decisive Vishnan and Vasudan vs Terran war which made the vasudans become the successor of the Brahmans?

with reference to the Shivans: They were calculated. A violent species which are bent to destroy the races which are deemed not worthy by the Vishnans (previously the brahmans?) and since there is no brahmans, the Vishnans used to order the shivans and they used to obey.

The Great Darkness looms over the sentient races, and to (combat/evade?) that situation, they might be jury rigging races for a successor for the brahmans, then might merge them to the Great Psyche as they were not the optimal successor, then might wait for a new race to emerge and continue the cycle until a worthy race has been found and will be ascended as the brahmans.

Possible theory where the big bang/creation of universe may also be a result of the dawn war/unleashing the next great darkness?

GTVA/UEF were almost technologically as advanced as the vishnans. Hence, they might have planned to merge them to the summed psyche. So why the Deception? Its like you want to give medicine to a kid. But then the kid will fight you as long as you treat it like youre giving it medicine. Instead, you sit with the child, you begin to tell the story/history of medicine, and you scale it down to a kid's level. Hence you omit all the confusing and complex details out, and in turn, you are just achieving what you really wanted: the kid to eat the medicine. As the kid grows, the kid will begin to explore and learn, because the kid is now interested with the vague details. One day, he might be in the same position which you are in: to administer medicine to a kid and the kid doesnt like it.

These are my thoughts, and i'd love inputs and corrections :D

My way of conveying what i talk may be confusing/may make no sense, please bear with me 😅

Thank you :-)

I like your ideas too, a little less downbeat then mine  :p
Wanna check out my video games, technology and media website? If so, visit; https://www.nomadsreviews.co.uk/

Interested in hiring my freelance writing, proof-reading, editing, SEO, TTSO, Web Development or Social Media Management services? If so, please visit; https://iainbakerfreelance.co.uk or https://www.fiverr.com/ibfreelance