[General Battuta]

Also, funny story, I made a list of words that would be in noodle's response and 'butthurt' and 'defensive' were #1 and #2. For I am the Kwisatz Haderach.

[Herra Tohtori]

The word filter is an user option that is on by default only, not as a forum enforced policy.  Check the "Leave words uncensored" option in Profile -> Look and Layout Preferences.


Then to your critique:

The whole concept of the GTVA as the aggressors is, frankly, retarded. I understand where the writers are coming from, I even agree with some points like the devastating encounters with the Shivans would have a profound impact on the psyche of the Alliance and would harden them. But the idea that they would wage a war on a faction that was not threatening them is absurd in the extreme, especially a war on ****ing Earth, which is practically deified by Galactic Terrans (even if its status as a lost promised land has diminished of late). The fact that a huge chunk of the battlegroup flat-out mutinied at the end of AoA speaks volumes.

Error coloured red.

There is a perceived threat to the GTVA, and to the minds who made the decision to go to war it was a very real threat.

It's not a military threat, and UEF as such is not the aggressor.

It's a perceived threat to humanity's ability to defend itself against external threats.

The GTVA leaders were frankly horrified at the success of Ubuntu and realized that if peaceful contact was established, it could very well assert its influence on the entire GTVA. This, in GTVA's opinion, would gravely reduce humanity's chances of survival. Hence, a way to contain and/or neutralize the cultural threat was needed, and war was deemed necessary.

And from a strategic point of view it's complete idiocy. If they are so paranoid about the Shivans returning why would they be bleeding away their military strength in a needless war? Yes, yes, I know the infrastructure in Sol is extensive, you could argue that they figure any losses they incur capturing that infrastructure would be easily made up for by what it could produce for them. But the fact is that they can have access to all those shipyards and things without losing a single fighter. The UEF wasn't hostile to them, and is well aware of the threat the Shivans pose (I've always been surprised Sol got so little mention and played virtually no role in FS1, outside of the finale). They would certainly be willing to join with the GTVA in a military alliance, and since the only threat outside of pirates that the UEF would face would come from outside the system, and if allied with the GTVA the only external threat would be the Shivans, the GTVA would have the aid of the entire UEF military machine essentially (though the UEF would likely insist on keeping a few fleets permanently stationed in Sol).

This war is not about conquered terrain, or controlled space and assets, it's about ideas. GTVA considers it impossible for Ubuntu to become nothing but a failure in an open universe:

The Ubuntu Party cannot function in an open universe. It is an artifact of the unique conditions of post-Isolation Sol. All its enlightenment and sophisticated modeling cannot account for the presence of hostile, xenocidal aliens.

Ubuntu has no answer for the Shivans. It relies on a universe in which all living beings can, in the long term, be persuaded to cooperate through market and psychological forces.

Additionally, conditions in the GTVA are ripe for the spread of the Ubuntu ideology. We consider the philosophical positions of the Ubuntu Party to be a threat to the preservation of the human species. We must move rapidly to contain this threat and organize a gradated return of Sol to legitimate GTVA authority. GTVI has already prepared a program to absorb and learn from Ubuntu’s social engineering projects. The Ubuntu Elders will be socially isolated and gradually discredited.

Under the Titan Accords, the governments of Jupiter, Mars and Earth are members of the Galactic Terran Alliance, and bound by their treaty obligations so long as an external threat exists.

Lastly see REDACTED.

There you have it - GTVA's reason for war, and the superficial legitimization that is fed to the public.

As for being paranoid that Ubuntu will spread through the GTVA, that would never happen. The fact that it's childish "let's all be friends and get along happy happy joy joy" philosophy gained such a following even just in an isolated Sol is highly suspect to begin with.

You can say it would never happen, but the GTVA sees how successful it was in Sol, and thus they see a viable possibility that it could spread to the GTVA population as well.

Fear doesn't need to be rational. Wars have been fought for far lesser reasons.

The whole conflict is just too contrived. Maybe that's the point, after all the story isn't finished yet, but I find that GTVA vs Sol stories only work when the Earth forces are the aggressor.

The story isn't finished quite yet, and I sincerely hope that the story will work for you in the end.

Oh, and I still hate the horrible 'cosmic balance' stuff you're doing with the Shivans and the Vishans.

The story isn't finished quite yet. Don't assume that the lampshades are the tropes themselves.

[Mongoose]

<3 u trollttuta

[General Battuta]

<3 u trollttuta

<3 <3 <3

Oh and QFTing a good Shivan Hunter thing that got buried:

[EDIT] w.r.t your concerns about wasting military resources- again, if you'd read the tech room entries, you'd know that the GTVA didn't plan on a war (at least not a drawn-out war of attrition with heavy losses), they intended to take up positions around Earth and other population centers and initiate a takeover with as little conflict as possible. The delay while they were in the alternate universe getting their catharsis, and the subsequent mutiny of a large portion of the battle group that caused, rendered this impossible.

Basically the war as it stands is a huge ****up that nobody totally planned on. Of course the Security Council had contingencies, but they were gambling on Plan A working out for maximum profit.

And if you think about it (YES YOU MR NOODLE) the original plan, pre-enormous-****up, is a pretty awesome plan. You seize Sol in one swell foop, you get all that amazing infrastructure ****, and you achieve your constituency's main desire in a single day AND come out looking like heroes afterwards.

Shame that (according to some theories, not canonically confirmed) those ****ing Vishnans intervened.

Rian says I made typos, I must commit seppuku. brb downloading into new body

[Quanto]

I ****ing love this thread! It's glorious!

Oh, and this stuff isn't self censored, there's an option you have to uncheck in your user profile. I can see everyone's profanity in all its glory. And you sir, are concentrated haterade, its like beautiful in all it's wretchedness.

I hope you never get banned, because quite frankly I enjoy your **** posting, it fills me with glee. Every time I see it, I have a stupid **** eating grin.

Thank you sir, for your never ending hate.

[Dilmah G]

Hmmm, noodle, you've really had it spelled out for you now, buddy.

Any slip ups here and it'll take some convincing to tell me you're reading the posts made in reply to you/taking in anything from them.

EDIT: fixed.

[noodle]

Despite what you guys probably think, I love Blue Planet. It's great fun, the weapons, the ships, the music (and effective use of music) and especially the mission design. I really like the whole military realism thing WiH has going on, that was very well done. I just don't like the 'advanced aliens manipulating stuff' theme, I didn't like it when it showed up in AoA, and though to your credit you have revealed it to not be (or at least not entirely be) a beneficent god-figures deal,  I don't like the whole approach it seems to be taking now much either. I like the description of it being more like abuse, but then that just gives me flashbacks to Babylon 5 and John Sheridan's whole 'stop using the younger races as pawns' speech. 'GET THE HELL OUT OF OUR GALAXY' was gringe-inducingly bad, and I hope you guys don't do something similar here.

Also I just can't accept the GTVA as the villain. I'll completely admit to bias here, virtually every campaign ever has you flying for the GTVA (or at least sort of on their side, like in campaigns where you're a mercenary), I like the GTVA. I simply can't accept them being these war mongering assholes, whatever the circumstances may be. I'll say it again, the whole war is too contrived. I know wars are frequently fought for stupid reasons, but this is just going too far for me.

If I come off as an asshole well...it's because I am quite an asshole. But it doesn't mean I'm wrong. I believe that criticism should be harsh, in the hope of it leading to a better future product. In fact I feel I'm actually being pretty restrained here, if I wanted to I could talk about how the character writing in AoA utterly failed for me, I didn't connect with or particularly care about any of the characters there, or I could talk about how most of the voice acting in the Director's Cut was so bad I had to turn the sound down and just read the text. Or how while better than in the first chapter, I didn't find the character writing in WiH terribly great either, I never cared about anyone in it, and that actually makes me sad because that was clearly a main goal for you guys. Speaking of which, while I appreciate what you were going for, I found Laporte's entire character development to be herky-jerky rather than the smooth arc you were probably hoping for.

I predict that no one will agree with any of my points. I think Blue Planet is great, for the most part, something of a flawed masterpiece. Basically I just don't think the writing (outside the military atmosphere, which really was great) is up to the level of the story you want to tell.

That frigate demo mission was damn good though, almost makes up for the problems I have with the story in and of itself.

[Shivan Hunter]

Also I just can't accept the GTVA as the villain. I'll completely admit to bias here, virtually every campaign ever has you flying for the GTVA (or at least sort of on their side, like in campaigns where you're a mercenary), I like the GTVA. I simply can't accept them being these war mongering assholes, whatever the circumstances may be. I'll say it again, the whole war is too contrived. I know wars are frequently fought for stupid reasons, but this is just going too far for me.

So... you support the GTVA. Guess what, a crapload of people here do as well. There's nothing wrong with, or unique about, that opinion. And unless it stops you from playing WiH because you just can't help but destroy all your wingmates, it's not worth yelling about.

[NGTM-1R]

Also I just can't accept the GTVA as the villain.

Well that's cool. They're not.

I'll completely admit to bias here, virtually every campaign ever has you flying for the GTVA (or at least sort of on their side, like in campaigns where you're a mercenary), I like the GTVA. I simply can't accept them being these war mongering assholes, whatever the circumstances may be. I'll say it again, the whole war is too contrived. I know wars are frequently fought for stupid reasons, but this is just going too far for me.

Oh it's not stupid at all. The GTVA is doing what they've always done; attempting to preserve the future of the Terran and Vasudan races. Ubuntu would destroy the forward defense necessary for even a marginal chance of surviving the next Shivan encounter. They represent a clear and present danger to the continued survival of the GTVA and the Terran and Vasudan races.

And if you actually read what I posted I'll be shocked, since everyone else tried to explain it once already.

If I come off as an asshole well...it's because I am quite an asshole. But it doesn't mean I'm wrong. I believe that criticism should be harsh, in the hope of it leading to a better future product.

Then you have no concept of proportional response. I live by the concept that you enlist a reviewer for the strength of his cruelty, but quite frankly you don't seem able to understand basic concepts or really think your commentary through. I commented on this in my response to your WoD criticism as well: you don't think it through. You don't pay attention to the details. Then they start contradicting you, and you don't know what to do. So you just repeat again. Bald assertion unsupported by facts.

In fact I feel I'm actually being pretty restrained here, if I wanted to I could talk about how the character writing in AoA utterly failed for me, I didn't connect with or particularly care about any of the characters there, or I could talk about how most of the voice acting in the Director's Cut was so bad I had to turn the sound down and just read the text.

Wow. "If I wanted to" well clearly you did since you, you know, did. Now I grant there was a problem with Samuel Bei and he wasn't perfectly believable because he was accepting, but he remained basically believable.

However crapping on the voice acting is hilarious. What? You think you're going to get better? And there was significant overlap with the granddaddy of voiceacting projects in the community, Derelict, which was universally praised. If you want to discredit your opinions in the community nobody's going to stop you, but it's probably not a good idea.

[The E]

Well, we did what we could to make the background in WiH and AoA as believable as we could. For most people, we succeeded. For noodle, we didn't. It happens.

However, noodle, consider that instead of calling things stupid without an explanation, you should try and deliver what is called constructive criticism. Or, you know, do your own story.

[Spoon]

Sooo tell me, why are we even bothering replying to someone who is completely out of touch with reality again?
I mean, clearly he hasn't got a single ****ing clue how much time and effort goes into the creation of freespace mods yet nooble acts like he paid for a product.

I believe that criticism should be harsh, in the hope of it leading to a better future product.

Oh yeah, like your post about WoD right? Yeah, that was really helpful.
And then when nobody agreed with you, you backed out of that ****storm you tried to create and never bothered to post again.

I'll just quote Quanto here because he sums you up nicely

I am of the opinion, that Noodle, is full of **** and dicks.

His value as a poster, and human being, is lower than that of a slime mold.

[General Battuta]

Despite what you guys probably think, I love Blue Planet. It's great fun, the weapons, the ships, the music (and effective use of music) and especially the mission design. I really like the whole military realism thing WiH has going on, that was very well done. I just don't like the 'advanced aliens manipulating stuff' theme, I didn't like it when it showed up in AoA, and though to your credit you have revealed it to not be (or at least not entirely be) a beneficent god-figures deal,  I don't like the whole approach it seems to be taking now much either. I like the description of it being more like abuse, but then that just gives me flashbacks to Babylon 5 and John Sheridan's whole 'stop using the younger races as pawns' speech. 'GET THE HELL OUT OF OUR GALAXY' was gringe-inducingly bad, and I hope you guys don't do something similar here.

Also I just can't accept the GTVA as the villain. I'll completely admit to bias here, virtually every campaign ever has you flying for the GTVA (or at least sort of on their side, like in campaigns where you're a mercenary), I like the GTVA. I simply can't accept them being these war mongering assholes, whatever the circumstances may be. I'll say it again, the whole war is too contrived. I know wars are frequently fought for stupid reasons, but this is just going too far for me.

If I come off as an asshole well...it's because I am quite an asshole. But it doesn't mean I'm wrong. I believe that criticism should be harsh, in the hope of it leading to a better future product. In fact I feel I'm actually being pretty restrained here, if I wanted to I could talk about how the character writing in AoA utterly failed for me, I didn't connect with or particularly care about any of the characters there, or I could talk about how most of the voice acting in the Director's Cut was so bad I had to turn the sound down and just read the text. Or how while better than in the first chapter, I didn't find the character writing in WiH terribly great either, I never cared about anyone in it, and that actually makes me sad because that was clearly a main goal for you guys. Speaking of which, while I appreciate what you were going for, I found Laporte's entire character development to be herky-jerky rather than the smooth arc you were probably hoping for.

I predict that no one will agree with any of my points. I think Blue Planet is great, for the most part, something of a flawed masterpiece. Basically I just don't think the writing (outside the military atmosphere, which really was great) is up to the level of the story you want to tell.

That frigate demo mission was damn good though, almost makes up for the problems I have with the story in and of itself.

Look I actually think this is a pretty reasonable post, but it also says that noodle's standards are at levels we will never meet.

The GTVA is not the villain. The relationship between BP's GTVA and FS2's GTVA is rather like the relationship between Vietnam America and World War 2 America.

If you don't like the character writing, all right, our failure, but I can say with 95% confidence it's better than that in a great many NYT bestsellers (Kevin J. Anderson I'm looking at you you little ****.)

And the AoA voice acting was, again, on par with a lot of commercial products. If you didn't like it you may just want to watch The Godfather.

[NGTM-1R]

You're still assuming that Noodle is operating from high standards. If that were true, then he would, for example, have read the background material about why the GTVA was at war. Considering his consistant inability to actually engage with background material or concepts such as setting, which he's demonstrated in the anime thread, WoD, and now here, I don't believe he's operating from high standards at all.

[General Battuta]

You're still assuming that Noodle is operating from high standards. If that were true, then he would, for example, have read the background material about why the GTVA was at war. Considering his consistant inability to actually engage with background material or concepts such as setting, which he's demonstrated in the anime thread, WoD, and now here, I don't believe he's operating from high standards at all.

Yeah, maybe true. Might be better put as 'there's no pleasing some people'.

[SpardaSon21]

What has happened to GB?  He's suddenly become a vicious, snarky bastard.  He scares me now.

[Snail]

Hell hath no fury...

[Dilmah G]

His ego is attempting to escape! 

* Dilmah G attempts to warn the forums as he is pulled by the back of his shirt into the shadowy backstreets of GenDisc.

[General Battuta]

What has happened to GB?  He's suddenly become a vicious, snarky bastard.  He scares me now.

There are many battutas!

But seriously look back through this thread and I think you'll find a fair bit of consideration for noodle's perspective.

[SpardaSon21]

I was mainly referencing your comment about Kevin J. Anderson.  I know he's the spawn of Satan, but that's the first time I've heard you call someone a "little ****".

[General Battuta]

I was mainly referencing your comment about Kevin J. Anderson.  I know he's the spawn of Satan, but that's the first time I've heard you call someone a "little ****".

Actually, as much as I can't tolerate he's writing, he's apparently a really, really nice guy. So sayeth a mutual friend, at least.