[lostllama]

Sorry for the double post. Below are links to scifi-meshes.com (the sister-site of military-meshes.com).

Pics of some scratch-built Crimson Skies models: http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/showthread.php?46090-Is-this-Scifi-enough-Crimson-Skies-Devastator-modification&highlight=crimson+skies

EDIT: Huh. I think that's the same Wyrmshadow chap in that devianART link I posted earlier.

Another interesting design: http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/showthread.php?18080-Alternate-Reality-Fighter-circa-1932&highlight=crimson+skies

Don't know if these are available to download anywhere though. Apparently StarSlayer's a member of that forum, so maybe he might be able to help with contacting these artists. Just an idea.

EDIT 2: Links to a CS fan site: http://www.montanaraiders.com/forum/index.php.
http://www.montanaraiders.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=32. I can't seem to find anything hosted for download here, but this may somehow be of use.

EDIT 3: Found some actual model files available to download this time at http://www.alexstoll.com/VRML/ - the file format is .wrl; not sure if that makes them useful to us. The Bell XP-59, Shinden, SM.55X, Swoose Goose and Interceptor have the right visual style, IMO.

[Quanto]

I got an interesting bit of historical data that may be relevant to your interests...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Macon_(ZRS-5)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Akron_(ZRS-4)

Both Airships were actual aircraft carriers. Keep in mind both also suffered horrible accidents, but don't take that as a "this could never work idea" but more of a "historical reference of developments leading up to the airships in your universe". The fact that OTL governments, including the United States experimented with these designs shows that a Crimson Skies Universe could have very well happened.

[lostllama]

I've found another site like AlexStoll.com with VRML files (.wrl extension): http://www.rccad.com/Gallery.htm. Can't seem to import them into Blender (although it should be able to import them), but they can be viewed using Cortona3D Viewer which is like a browser app. The models are also downloadable as .rcd files which can be opened with RcCad (which is also downloadable from this site). I know they look quite bland and lack detailed textures but it could be a starting point.

Perhaps someone with more experience could get an in-depth look at some of these models to get an idea of polycount, etc.

[Angelus]

so if someone has IL-2 installed, and wants go to the trouble of extracting the mesh files  ( ***.msh ) and the textures, that would be cool (for placeholder usage).
One or two models would suffice.

[lostllama]

I have IL2: 1946 installed so I could look into that......although I am a complete noob.

[Angelus]

i should warn you, i've checked what needs to be done, and it's quite a bit of work.


Here's a link to a guide, the required steps are 1-8 only. I don't want you to get into much work, so feel free to say "no".

http://fusionpack.net/newy/classtutorial.html


Edit: might have been cool if i would have added the link, right?

[lostllama]

I haven't used Java before but that seems to be straightforward.

This may sound really stupid but I'm not totally sure about 1C's and Oleg Maddox's position on having their assets used like this. I haven't actually done any modding before () so I know little about the legal terms of use (of course I know this is for non-commercial intentions but I'm wondering if there's anything else to be aware of).

[starlord]

the akron and macon are thouroughly described in the air power: battle in the skies manual (crimson skies' "elder brother" for DOS)

[lostllama]

the akron and macon are thouroughly described in the air power: battle in the skies manual (crimson skies' "elder brother" for DOS)

Yes, I remember Air Power fondly. I think it also mentioned the R100 or R101 as well. I have it installed but I can't get it to run on my system.

Does anyone have knowledge of X-Plane model files? Thaeris, are you reading this?

I've found a Sankai Mk.b here but it seems that you need to join the forum in order to download. Recently I got a copy of X-Plane 9; I haven't really dabbled with it yet.

[ethaninja]

I have IL2: 1946 installed so I could look into that......although I am a complete noob.

Yeah me too. But I'll also give it a shot

[Thaeris]

the akron and macon are thouroughly described in the air power: battle in the skies manual (crimson skies' "elder brother" for DOS)

Yes, I remember Air Power fondly. I think it also mentioned the R100 or R101 as well. I have it installed but I can't get it to run on my system.

Does anyone have knowledge of X-Plane model files? Thaeris, are you reading this?

I've found a Sankai Mk.b here but it seems that you need to join the forum in order to download. Recently I got a copy of X-Plane 9; I haven't really dabbled with it yet.

dad on the X-Plane forums made the Acron or the Macon, I can't remember which. I also have the Sparrowhawk fighter that was launched from the airship. However, I want you to keep in mind that converting a model from X-Plane is a pretty long and laborious task. Personally, I'd say that because the Acron and the Macon were pretty simple in terms of shape, you'd be better off getting the schematic for yourself and making your own model - A revolve operation for the envelope and an extrusion/shaping operation (plus a duplicate geometry an axial revolution,etc) for the fins will be the bulk of the work... Not to mention the gondola...

Regardless, if you must have the X-Plane model for your purposes, I can work on contacting dad and then rip the model. However, also keep in mind that I myself have a lot of work to do - there's nothing stopping anyone from doing these things themselves.

[lostllama]

Thanks for the information about that Thaeris.

I have IL2: 1946 installed so I could look into that......although I am a complete noob.

Yeah me too. But I'll also give it a shot

You may have more success. Please bear in mind that I'm a novice and therefore I'm probably coming at this from the completely wrong angle.

Using the method that Angelus posted, I extracted the .msh files for the Bf-109E-4 - so far so good. I assumed that there'd be one .msh file for the aircraft model, but it's made up of 93 of them. Each is a separate component of the model (propeller, wing, landing gear and so on). I found a means of converting them to .OBJ files (via MshConverter) in order to import them into Blender, but I'm having problems getting each component of the model into a shape resembling a 109 - I tried grouping individual .msh files into one .OBJ file, thinking that maybe the pieces would come together properly, but it doesn't work.

So from what I can tell, I think they have to be put together in Blender (or some other program), or maybe there's something missing that tells the program where each piece goes.

I reckon that I should leave this to the experts.

[swashmebuckle]

A Mighty Fortress:

In 1927, a team of German scientists led by Albert Einstein and Werner Heisenberg announced to the world the development of a revolutionary technology--a substance capable of resisting gravitation and lifting incredible masses into the sky.  Dubbed "Flugstein" (literally "Flystone"), this modern wonder made its spectacular debut the very next day with the first publicized flight of the light cruiser Emden, a converted technology demonstrator that would change the course of history.

The gravity-defying properties of Flugstein were a complete revelation to the world.  In fact, the underlying principle demonstrated by this breakthrough was of even greater importance and profundity than the technology itself--the superunification of Einstein's theories of gravitation with Heisenberg's Quantum Mechanics.  Only slightly less amazing was the fact that Germany was able to keep their research operations a secret for so long.  Unfortunately for the world, the aristocracy was more interested in leveraging a potential weapons development than openly sharing information for the betterment of mankind, so these brilliant scientists were as tightly handled as the technology itself.

On the day of Emden's historic flight, a short message was issued both from Berlin and the floor of the League of Nations--Germany was willing to offer this miraculous knowledge to the former Entente powers as payment in full for their (extensive) remaining war reparations.  Although outwardly this was simply a business proposal, the communication's subtext heavily implied that the Flugstein would be shared exclusively with the United States should their demands not be met.  If a flying German navy scared the European powers, the thought of a technologically superior German - US alliance positively terrified them.  Germany, though a manufacturing powerhouse, was still weak enough that an alliance between two or three other nations could likely dominate her in a quick air war and demand that the Flugstein be handed over.  America, on the other hand, was practically inaccessible in the short term and could out-produce much of the rest of the world on her own, excluding Germany.  If she was the first to fly a substantial aero-naval force, she could park a battleship over every capital and effectively become the world's only superpower, or so the prevailing wisdom held.

In hindsight, it was clear that Germany had neither the capability nor the intention of keeping the technology to an exclusive group of allies--not only would holding the secrets indefinitely be all but impossible with spy networks operating in every port, such an action would completely undermine her hoped-for revival, turning her closest trade partners against her.  Over the past decade Germany and the United States had essentially become factories that built factories, yet they were as likely to collapse as any other nation if the demand that kept those factories running dried up or was funneled into a short-lived total war economy.

With every parliament and cabinet in emergency session, Germany had only to wait for the world's response.  Luckily for them, the French public was riding high on air power following Charles Lindbergh's historic New York-Paris flight and what was then thought to be the final victory of the Armée de l'Air over the Sardinian pirate "admiral" Don Luigi Sturzo.  As soon as news of the Emden hit the presses, every red blooded Frenchman was loudly demanding that their flying men be the ones to halt the power-hungry Germans.  Recognizing an opportunity to show the right that his Radical Party government was not comprised of spineless doves who would pander to his fellow Protestants across the border, president Gaston Doumergue ignored the objections of his Generals and committed France to battle.

Grand Debut:

On the morning of July 5th, sixty of France's best fighter and bomber craft departed Paris on a mission to destroy the prototype.  Stripped of all markings save their pilots' impressive listings of victories, "L'escadre" was already famous for its actions over the Mediterranean and Algeria, having served with distinction alongside the equally popular Foreign Legion Air Corps.  The level of publicity arranged ahead of the sortie was unprecedented, with L'escadre being framed by the newspapers as a group of noble knights riding out to slay the villainous Teutonic dragon.  While this meant that the Germans knew well ahead of time exactly what was coming for them, there was no way for them to hide the cruiser now that it had been revealed, and it was thought that the Luftwaffe was still far too poorly funded to challenge a veteran wing. 

Emden's shakedown voyage was plotted to follow the length of the Rhine northward (through territory that France had unsuccessfully tried to claim following the war).  After refueling at Nancy, the French wing spotted its quarry at 11:43 over the city of Mainz and immediately moved to attack.  Recognizing that a bombing the cruiser would be difficult and inadvisable over a major population center, their plan called for strafing runs with a focus on the ship's vulnerable engines and command tower.  Emden's defenses consisted of numerous machine gun emplacements and eight fifteen-centimeter guns that had been converted to fire timed fuze air burst shells, weapons that were regarded as largely ineffective even against the relatively slow fixed wing aircraft of the time.  As soon as the attacking force was spotted, these weapons were brought to bear and a full broadside was fired at near-maximum range.  Because the attackers were still flying in formation, history's first air-to-air bombardment was a success, with one fighter destroyed and another forced to ditch. 

These two victories proved to be the last of Emden's career, as her captain wisely decided he wanted nothing to do with the approaching force.  In a maneuver that shocked the French pilots and changed the face of modern warfare, Emden diverted full power to the Flugstein and rose six thousand meters straight into the air, putting the paltry climb rate of the fixed-wing aircraft to shame.  With a sinking feeling in their hearts, the French circled around to regain their altitudinal advantage, struggling to come within range of their foe before running out of fuel.  Their hopes were dashed once more when, upon pulling level with their target, Emden dropped like a stone back to its original position.  Lacking the dive breaks that would become the distinguishing feature of future planes designed to take down heavier-than-air ships, the fighters had no way of delivering a heavy blow to such an agile enemy. 

As L'escadre sent half its planes downwards in a final vain effort to reengage, the full might of the Luftwaffe dropped on them--over one hundred fighter craft led by none other than the newly instated Baron Manfred von Richthofen.  After focusing on Emden for the duration of the combat, the French were caught wrong-footed and their dive quickly turned into a rout.  Of the sixty craft that participated in the attack at Mainz, less than half that number returned to France, with the majority of those lost being forced to ditch due to fuel management.  Germany suffered less than twenty casualties in the engagement, including four civilians who were killed when an Amiot 120 crashed through the roof of a bakery.  This victory, coupled with the emergence of their cruiser unscathed from almost half an hour of air combat, seemed to point the way to the future.

Within a week of the incident, a deal was brokered in the League of Nations whereby the former Entente nations agreed to all of Germany's demands with the token provision that Kaiser Wilhelm had to remain in exile.  The lifting of the reparation debts substantially altered the face of Europe, as a sum which was expected to take forty years to pay off was erased in just over ten.  Over the following years, Flugstein technology proved to be somewhat difficult to adapt for actual combat purposes, with early experimental designs suffering from reliability concerns and extremely limited endurance.  Emden herself suffered a breakdown the day after the battle and was taken down the river to dock at Bonn before having her Flugstein grid removed for use in a more advanced prototype.

Following a series of catastrophic disasters over land and sea during the late twenties, battery backups were developed which could provide just enough power to gently ease a ship down to the nearest body of water, though some of the more recent designs are not entirely seaworthy and can only shut down their grids when in drydock.  The exact composition of Flugstein remains a closely guarded secret between the governments of the League of Nations' security council members, though the rare element Caesium is a known component of modern grids.  To date, the only recorded theft of this technology was by the Imperial Japanese Navy, when they captured the HMAS Amazon departing Hong Kong in 1932.  Outside of this incident, the following decade would prove to be a period of unprecedented growth and progress for the powers, with new players and forces emerging from within that would set the stage for today's conflicts and triumphs.

Within a few entries of the present day--what's the MacGuffin gonna be?

[The E]

I think Nukes are gonna be it.

[Rodo]

I like the political background swash is putting up, quite an interesting read.

[Angelus]

I like the political background swash is putting up, quite an interesting read.

Indeed.

[Thaeris]

As a result of trying to give someone a tutorial/pointers on modeling in general, I now have a basic V-2 rocket modeled. As a test for myself, it's also UV mapped, but has no texture. Anyone may use the model for whatever suits their purposes, though in that case keep in mind that this is a sub-orbital rocket from WWII. Also, if you do use it, please note me down in the model credits.



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[Scourge of Ages]

Hmmmm, I had forgotten that those existed. I wonder how effective they would be against airships? Could they be accurate enough when fired from a ground launcher? Could smaller rockets be deployed on dive/torpedo bombers as opposed to conventional bombs?
<Hmmm.>

[Thaeris]

If you were to use the V-2, why not use it as a weapon launched by airships upon ground targets?

If you want a missile to use against other airships, why not use a missile actually designed to shoot down aircraft?

However, these weapons are from the mid/late 40's (should the latter have entered service) - you'd need to make sure that they'd fit in agreeably with your mod. Then again, you do have giant flying battleships...

[Scourge of Ages]

Yes, that would work nicely.
I was aware that small unguided rockets existed and were deployed on some bombercraft, but I thought they were only for surface bombardment, due to probable inaccuracy versus aircraft. I had absolutely no idea that such a thing as a guided anti-aircraft flak rocket ever existed back then, even in theory. That's really cool.
Think it would be theoretically easy enough (in this mod universe) to mount a guidance system and armor piercing tip on a V2-style rocket?