Author Topic: Respawning as wingmen  (Read 11715 times)

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Offline Machaka

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Hey guys, I don't know if this has been kicked around before so I'll try to keep it short...

It seems to me that FS2 singleplayer would greatly benefit from a revised death system where you get to take control of surviving wingmen upon death instead of getting booted to mission failure.  A lot of higher-difficulty FS2 missions (both canon and custom) are rife with plot twists, enemies warping in from nowhere, instant death caused by a small mistake or bad luck, or are just nigh-impossible without a weapon loadout guided by perfect foresight.  As a player, I often find myself just failing or restarting a hard mission when something unexpected happens to tweak my loadout or camp on top of where the bombers will warp in.  And suddenly failing a 25-minute mission because I got in the way of a anti-cap beam really feels like the kind of design flaw that belongs in a primitive 1990's game.

I believe that revising the death system would give players more flexibility and allow them to play more aggressively.  Scraping through and beating hard missions on the first attempt would be much more plausible, which greatly helps story-telling, as even the most wonderfully written Blue Planet mission gets crappy after hearing the lines and going through the opening motions seven times.  Players might also be less inclined to let wingmen wander off and get thrashed, since those ships are now their extra lives.

 

Offline Angelus

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wouldn't work in most (character driven for instance) campaigns.

 

Offline Scotty

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If it works for yours, I don't see why not, but it's a real immersion breaker.  Plus, there aren't a whole lot of missions I can think of that are long enough to warrant it on a regular basis.  Mystery of the Trinity in retail is one of the longer ones, but with no real source of instant beam death or fail.

Plus, now we can make checkpoints, and any need to do this is gone.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Checkpoints!

 

Offline Droid803

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Bah, checkpoints. Unrealistic. Just as unrealistic as restarting the mission.

This sounds cool and I want it.
(´・ω・`)
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Offline General Battuta

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Screw checkpoints its unrelated. This sounds cool and I want it.

Checkpoints is not unrelated because it's a partial solution to the problem described.

This system could...sort of be faked right now. It'd be unhappy in many respects but it could be done.

 

Offline Droid803

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Too fast! I reworded it!

Basically its to skip the fact that there's a loading screen after you die at all.

The moment you die you get to take control of another fighter and keep playing!
(´・ω・`)
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Offline Machaka

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yeah ok checkpoints would work too, sweet

 

Offline General Battuta

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Too fast! I reworded it!

Basically its to skip the fact that there's a loading screen after you die at all.

The moment you die you get to take control of another fighter and keep playing!

Yeah but that wouldn't work for...almost any campaign released so far. It would only work in something like NGTM-1R's Harpoon campaign idea in which the player is never addressed specifically. So checkpoints are ironically less unrealistic.

Don't get me wrong though, I'd absolutely love to get Operation Flashpoint style hotswapping like that working.

yeah ok checkpoints would work too, sweet

Did the checkpoint system in BP2 work okay for you? It is a bit glitchy but should do the job.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 09:00:58 pm by General Battuta »

 

Offline Droid803

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Now to think of it, why just take over wingmen after you die...if you could swap between flying as different wingmen as necessary (and have the AI fly the others for you)...that would be so awesome...

Though that's moved away from the topic's initial concern...but its still awesome.

I wonder how much of the game is built around the assumption that the player's craft never changes...
Cause a "set-as-player" SEXP would be much win...
(´・ω・`)
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Id much prefer time reversal on death  :D

Spoiler:
It would at least work in Transcend

 

Offline General Battuta

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Now to think of it, why just take over wingmen after you die...if you could swap between flying as different wingmen as necessary (and have the AI fly the others for you)...that would be so awesome...

Though that's moved away from the topic's initial concern...but its still awesome.

I wonder how much of the game is built around the assumption that the player's craft never changes...
Cause a "set-as-player" SEXP would be much win...

This has definitely been discussed. At one point the fourth ability in The Blade Itself sequel was not just swapping between the two ship's ability menus but between the ships themselves. Unfortunately FSO's...not up to the task yet.

 

Offline Droid803

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Unfortunately FSO's...not up to the task yet.

When will it be, then? :P
(´・ω・`)
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Both options were available for X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter, but I can't think of another game with a similar option.
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A Feddie Story

 

Offline General Battuta

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Unfortunately FSO's...not up to the task yet.

When will it be, then? :P

We're all waiting on your patch. Post the diff when it's ready.

Either that or when Axem and I bludge and kludge it into submission in FRED.

Both options were available for X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter, but I can't think of another game with a similar option.

Operation Flashpoint? Ghost Recon? Rainbow Six? These are classics.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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I was limiting myself to flight sims, or those pretending to be one. When you're a member of faceless hordes (or simply nearly faceless due to bad textures like the first Rainbow 6) it's easier to justify than when you're a pilot.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

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Offline karajorma

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This system could...sort of be faked right now. It'd be unhappy in many respects but it could be done.

It could be done 5 years ago. I know cause I did it for a MindGames mission. :p
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

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In the future if anybody makes a campaign for Diaspora where you play as the Cylons it would be pretty cool. Like you're Scar and if you get shot down they download you into an available raider.
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Offline -Norbert-

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Not quite canon, since you need those big ressurction ships and the hub for that....
On the other hand, you could explain it away with the Raiders ressurection/download being easier to handle than the human types.

Quote
Both options were available for X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter
Odd that they would take one of those out for X-Wing Alliance.
There you couldn't switch fighters at will, but got switched on death.... that is in single missions. Not in the campaign of coursef or obvious reasons (i.e. being a certain character).

 

Offline Charismatic

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I love the idea of 'taking over surviving ships' replacing 'respawning\restatring'. I tried to keep my guys alive anyways:P
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