[Mika]

This has been circling around my mind for some time already, but are you other old schoolers getting tired of the new generation games? I can't put my finger there what is exactly wrong in them, but it just doesn't feel the same any more. The irony is that now when I have the resources and will to buy a perfect gaming rig (can be used to computing too) most of the stuff I find from the gameshop shelves doesn't interest me single bit (pun intended). The only thing I'm waiting for is Duke Nukem Forever - and even that is debatable if it will be anything like the 3D, and after that I guess there just won't be anything any more. It is a weird feeling, but it is as if you had seen that all before. Fallout New Vegas might have something, but I can't help but think that the original Fallouts are still more interesting and better gameplay and gamedesign wise. At least New Vegas is a vast improvement from Fallout 3.

The point is I feel the new games are uninspired and resemble movies, delivering some cheap thrills but lack the game and any sort of replay value in there. Modern FPSs are almost unplayable to me (and I don't play multi, with the exception of Falcon 4.0 AF), mainly a linear corridor with prescripted events and cutscenes where generic hero #32 strikes imposing pose #25 and says cliche #6. It is not hard to understand why Duke Nukem would work so well here for us old schoolers. Why is it that I still find myself playing likes of C&C 1, Fallout 2, or Falcon 4.0, and long for the original Doom with 2010 graphics? Or Jagged Alliance 2 for that matter? Although World of Goo is indeed a nice modern game that actually has replayability. I could check if anyone has remade Supaplex and recreated all those devious puzzles too.

Tomb Raider Underworld was a slight disappointment. Yes it does look fantastic with all graphic settings at MAX and sound world is incredible, but the game itself is rather glitchy, and the controls don't work that well as they did in Legend. So gameplaywise it was actually a step down, missing some of the adventuring part in some levels. It had fantastic graphics and models, but with a rather odd plot that was presented in a stupid way and cut that badly that even I spotted the gaps immediately. On top of it all, they put the missing parts out as DLC, but they are XBOX exclusive!     There really should be a law against this sort of thing! I'll try Tomb Raider 2 next, seems that the modders have improved the graphics by some amount to make playing it bearable with a wide screen monitor.

So what is it with cutting nowadays? Is it that the arts have become so expensive to model and develop that anything else has to suffer? Angel of Darkness could have been a fantastic game, ditto with KOTOR2 (which still doesn't exactly feel complete even after the Restoration Content Mod), not that I would be ungrateful for the modders for repairing most of the broken stuff. The original plots would have been awesome in both of those games - yes even Angel of Darkness, as at one step it would have started with Lara being depressed (almost to point of becoming alcoholic) that burns down her mansion (copied in Underworld where Doppelganger does this)... One plot possibility of KOTOR2 would have had Atris as the Darth Traya making you to do her bidding and being your love interest (if male) at the same time. The thing was that the Darth Traya could have been Kreia or Atris and you never knew until the end. Perhaps these plots would have made programming complicated or broken the franchise by somewhat, but it would also have made them much more memorable - and imaginative.

Perhaps I should opt to see the performances in local theatres (not movie theatres) instead of gaming? Or simply start to enjoy another art form in my free time? It just feels like gaming just isn't anymore what it was back then. So please, post your thoughts!

EDIT: Typos

[MR_T3D]

I feel yeah, most modern games are getting a little 'boring' and sort of lack the depth and creativity of yesteryear.

You should give STALKER call of pripyat and shadow of chernybol a whirl, (pretty cheap on steam) they're not like modern FPS's and feel quite different and awesome.  relatively open world, stuff to do/explore, great depth, mechanics and atmosphere.
and then the mods open it up even more.
That's what I've done, and its so worth it

[Kolgena]

I'm going to (sort of) drag in the PC vs console thing here. In general, PC-only games seem to have more depth, because you can stick more content in them and you have more inputs. Since game devs are sort of shunning PC games in general, and will only port stuff over from consoles, we see stuff suffer. It doesn't mean that it's impossible to make a deep game for console, but the trends seem to indicate that this is the case. Might be illusory correlation though.

Also, games with ****ty replayability means that you need to constantly buy new titles if you don't want to get bored. Profit.

[Dark Hunter]

I have no intention of giving up gaming until the very day I die.

Though I don't buy as much new stuff these days, it's true. But it's not all bad at all. Mirror's Edge was pure excellence. Ditto Portal, and Portal 2 (which I've already pre-ordered) looks incredible, and the next installment of Half-Life will be amazing if Valve ever remembers that franchise exists. And then there was Sin and Punishment 2 on the Wii just recently. Absolutely incredible game (though the dialogue really needed some work).

Then, of course, there's a new Touhou release at least once a year... but that's kind of a niche here in America. Meh, whatever. They're fun games with clever dialogue and awesome music.

My advice would be to get out of the mainstream a bit. It tends to get clogged with cliche trash until someone comes up with a bright idea, stirs everything up, and gives everyone else something new to copy. Not-mainstream titles tend to be quirky, and they tend to try new things more often, because no one's gonna pay attention to them otherwise. Obviously, sometimes this doesn't work, but sometimes it does, and it's more fun for it.

[Mika]

For this I will shed a single tear of joy. Especially the remixed title song. OMF 2097 was great. Hopefully they get it out some day.

The high resolution mod of Deus Ex would be nice too.

Back to topic though. I see what you guys mean, my solution has been playing tabletop games with friends. Arkham Horror is one of the best recent ones we have found.

The other thing about the computer games nowadays is the difficulty. I just find most of them far too easy, even on the hardest possible levels. Though this doesn't matter that much if the game play works. One of the most balanced all-around game that I have played is Prince of Persia Sands Of Time. Tomb Raider Legend and Anniversary were good too, though the combat doesn't work that well in them. But at least Anniversary required some thought in the puzzles. The single complaint in all of them together is that they were linear games and if I happened to look around too much on the first play through, there were not so many treasures to go back to hunt in there anymore.

But yeah, I guess I could take a look at the mods and non-mainstream stuff. There was this one Japanese game with a Final Fantasy type combat that actually managed to put up a challenge, I've still not seen all the possible endings there after three months of playing. It was rather refreshing to die in a couple of game rounds from the start at the first go. No mercy for the beginners that make stupid mistakes and surprisingly I found it much more Fun! And I returned back prepared and better on the second try! Though there were a couple of things they could have made a tutorial of , without reducing the difficulty at all. I wonder how many gems have slipped under the radar. Psychonauts could be something that I could try.

By the way, I didn't like Half-life 2 that much as a game. It told a decent story, was scenic and had interesting locations, but as a game I only played through it once (hardest possible) and haven't done much with it after that. I liked Painkiller more as a shooter. Think what Half-life 2 would have been like had the early build not been leaked to internets before the release.

[FUBAR-BDHR]

Haven't actually played a game for fun in over a year.  All my playing has been debugging or testing.  Heck can't remember the last time I didn't run a debug build. 

So while gaming has gotten old there is more to do then just play. 

[NGTM-1R]

There are decades of stuff out there you could still play, and Steam is happy to help you along. If not X-Com, something else. Aquanox would probably appeal to an FS player. If you run back to DosBox, Archimedean Dynasty if you can find a copy. The freeware rebuild of Wing Commander: Privateer.

The industry has been in business a long time. If what they're producing now doesn't appeal to you, spend some time in the past. It'll still be here when you resurface.

[Dark Hunter]

By the way, I didn't like Half-life 2 that much as a game. It told a decent story, was scenic and had interesting locations, but as a game I only played through it once (hardest possible) and haven't done much with it after that. I liked Painkiller more as a shooter. Think what Half-life 2 would have been like had the early build not been leaked to internets before the release.

Understandable. Not a huge FPS fan myself, but I love Half-Life's atmosphere and sense of immersion. That's really what I admire most about gaming as a medium: to me, it seems to be able to pull you into a story so much more completely than books or film (though I like both of those too). Naturally, that's if it's done properly; there are plenty of games that do not accomplish that. It makes me sad, because I feel there's so much untapped potential for incredible storytelling in games, and developers mostly aren't seeing it.

But of course, a lot of people aren't looking for that, and that's fine too.

[CP5670]

I can see where you're coming from. I think we still get some excellent games today but they essentially follow well-established formulas that the publishers know are guaranteed to sell well, and it's rare to see a game that actually tries something new. The most original games I'm seeing these days are mods and freeware and indie titles. If you look back 10 years ago, you can see a big difference in the variety of games back then compared to what we have now.

As far as FPSs go, I agree that modern singleplayer ones focus too much on creating a "cinematic experience" and essentially try to be movies instead of having any sort of gameplay depth. I like these types of games but I don't want everything to be like this. This trend in FPSs is similar to that interactive movie phase that games went through in the mid 90s, and it may eventually end given that the technology (i.e. graphics) has topped out for a while now. Most of the multiplayer game types I like (arena-style and 6DOF FPSs, non-MMO space sims) have fallen out of fasion these days too, with the exception of classic-style RTSs.

I can't see myself giving up gaming though. As ngtm1r said, there are enough existing old titles and mods out there to last a lifetime. I probably spend more time playing these games than newer ones, although there are still modern ones that catch my interest. In the last few months, I played Psychonauts, MOO2 and Clockwerx (in a Mac emulator), all for the first time. I'm currently playing Homeworld and some Descent 2 fanmade level sets.

I could check if anyone has remade Supaplex and recreated all those devious puzzles too.

Megaplex is a modern Windows port of it, although it still uses the same graphics. The Mac port of this game, Infotron, totally owned my life as a kid.

Psychonauts could be something that I could try.

This game is exceptional and probably the most original title I have seen in many years, but it's a pretty easy game.

By the way, I didn't like Half-life 2 that much as a game.

I think this is a strictly average game and doesn't match up at all to the best FPSs. I never understood why it is so popular.

[Nuke]

i think it may just be were all getting old. i dont play gmes as much as i used to. but mods and indie games are always a good way to go. i had been playing mechwarrior living legends strait for like a month or so, with on and off starcraft 2 binges. very few new games interest me at all.

[Sushi]

We're in the middle of an indie game renaissance... plenty of good, innovative stuff out there for you to enjoy, at a fraction of the cost of AAA titles. Enjoy!

[Mika]

Megaplex

That I gotta try. Some of those puzzles were downright devilish.

Most of the multiplayer game types I like (arena-style and 6DOF FPSs, non-MMO space sims) have fallen out of fashion these days too

Yup. A new 6DOF FPS would be great to see too. I recommend Flying Saucer if you can find it. It was never released, but it was (legally?) downloadable in Home of the Underdogs. It was rather fun game with a completely different flying "model".

Wing Commander: Privateer

The problem is that I have already played through Privateer (wasn't that interesting, most of the stuff I did between story missions did not affect anything). But getting the 2002 level computer with XP to run it was another thing... Required devious usage of DOS 6.22 boot disk, CD-ROM drivers and RAMDRIVE.SYS...  Wing Commander I was more interesting, but I think Wing Commander II was even better when it was launched back then. I played the **** out of that game and its expansion disks, but currently I don't have any wish to go back there any more. I have never been able to acquire Wing Commander III that could be played in Windows XP, but there is also something generally odd about the games of its age: they look horribly dated to me. While 320x240 MCGA era games like Falcon 3.0 are still OK graphically to me (it's weird), there is something what I don't like nowadays in the earliest 3D engines. They would need graphical updates to become interesting again. OMF 2097 or Fallout I still looks good to me, but early Tomb Raiders and Deus Ex really need graphical updates - which communities seem to provide, luckily. Anything coming after 2002 looks good enough for me already.

I think this is a strictly average game and doesn't match up at all to the best FPSs. I never understood why it is so popular.

Agreed. It had its moments, but the weird thing was that those weren't related to the shooting parts. I don't even remember the shooting that much, with the exception of guiding those rockets on those helicopters, but that's about it.

Nobody else thinks that the gaming industry is doing seriously wrong if people still want to play the old games, rather than the new ones? But I guess it's the same with old movies or older books. They just don't make them any more like that. I just find it sad that I nowadays just pass the gaming shelves just like I started to pass movies shelves years earlier. But now even the book shops can't be trusted(!). One of the most thought provoking books for a long time I came across recently was written in 1948. No recent author has been able to put such depth in there.

[General Battuta]

It's mostly an illusion. Especially in science fiction the quality of material being produced right now massively outstrips what we had in the past.

[Thaeris]

If the illusion has an effect, is the illusion real, though?

Personally, I was never big into the gaming scene as a kid as I grew up with a Mac. However, even then, I did have quite a few rather great games like X-Wing, the Hornet flight simulators, etc. All of those had a replayability, scope, and length like few games today can match. Also, they were not at all easy in the later parts. Some of the older games are much, much harder in terms of difficulty than newer ones, despite their relative simplicity.

And perhaps it's a bit ignorant, but I have seldom been enthralled with major game studios for some time. My favorite games for a while have been from independent developers, and are thus a bit out of the spotlight. Good games are still out there, but might be a bit tough to find.

[Dark Hunter]

Nobody else thinks that the gaming industry is doing seriously wrong if people still want to play the old games, rather than the new ones?

Except they aren't, and people don't.

The new games are still selling massively well. People love the new games. The one who is different is you. Your perceptions and opinions have changed.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, it happens to all of us. Just try not to let it blind you to new quality. Maybe they don't make fun things like they used to, but that doesn't mean they can't come up with new fun things of a different kind. Just be willing to look for them.

[Mika]

It's mostly an illusion. Especially in science fiction the quality of material being produced right now massively outstrips what we had in the past.

I don't read science fiction that much. One of the best sci-fi books I can recall was by Stanislaw Lem (there is some amount of hilarious Red propaganda in the book), which was about an expedition launched to Venus, that found out the planet was indeed inhabited before and the whole planet was destroyed in a nuclear war, and nothing survived the devastation. The other was called Solaris, which is about the aliens being so different that it is impossible to understand or communicate with them. The creature in the book happens to be a water like substance that covers an entire planet... But I liked more about the expedition to Venus - it still remains the best sci-fi book I have read. The Dig had parts which reminded me of Stanislaw Lem's books. Some people recommended Hyperion series, I found them to be rather uninteresting and struggled to go through them. I don't remember anything but the paper back book picture of some creature. But Dune by Frank Herbert was a good read.

Except they aren't, and people don't.

The new games are still selling massively well. People love the new games. The one who is different is you. Your perceptions and opinions have changed.

I know I'm different. But it appears I'm not the only one. It just seems that what used to be the last bastions of imagination are... well, are not that any more. But I can hardly call it a quality game if I spent less than 20 hours in it. I have probably thousands of playing hours in Falcon 3.0, hundreds in Falcon 4.0, ditto with Civilization II and many others. I just don't know what I should be thinking about the bestseller game that lasts less than ten hours. Or recent bestseller books that I can't remember anything about, I just know I read them.

Let's see what I have now on the shelf that I should play through:
Baldur's gates
Early Tomb Raiders
Jagged Alliance 2 and Unfinished Business
Sam & Max Season 2 (Sam & Max Season 1 was fun, but short and these games have no replay value!)
Runaway Dream of the Turtle (bought because I liked Runaway I)
Myst V
Siberia II
Mass Effect 2
Civ IV
Supreme Commander (I'm not touching SPCOM II)

When I finish those, I guess my gaming days will pretty much be over. For some reason I'm already spending more time here in the forum rather than playing games.

[Mika]

Oh I just found out that the 1948 book I was talking about has been translated in English.

The author is Mika Waltari (And I know my screen name is Mika, it is also my real first name. Mika is a common Finnish name, shortened from Mikael by the way. But this is not marketing, the author died 30 years ago and I'm not him.)
The book is called "The Adventurer" and its continuation "The Wanderer" are among the best books I have ever read. I also heartily recommend "The Egyptian" by the same author. All of those books have depth I didn't know could exist until I read them.

The Adventurer is an interesting story of traveling through Europe during the time Luther was nailing his notes. It is told from a Finnish perspective and suffice to say, there happens a lot in this book, at the end they are storming Rome and ousting the Pope... First 100 pages I laughed continuously since the dialogue is downright hilarious, especially anything related to religion.

The story continues in The Wanderer, where main character accepts the Islamic faith unknowingly (I don't want to spoil that if you happen to get the book) and becomes a slave. His status then slowly raises and he finds out that the Ottoman Empire at that time is much more rich and much more developed than anything else in Europe, mainly thanks to the grand vizier that actually isn't a bad guy at all in this book! The Wanderer also has probably one of the most surprising and depressing endings I have ever read. Don't get me wrong, it certainly is a good ending, it is just downright depressing.

"The Egyptian" is from the time of Pharaohs, and discusses the nature of two different religions. Oh, and it is an adventure story at the same time, the main character ends up in the labyrinth of Minos at some point...

[CP5670]

Yup. A new 6DOF FPS would be great to see too. I recommend Flying Saucer if you can find it. It was never released, but it was (legally?) downloadable in Home of the Underdogs. It was rather fun game with a completely different flying "model".

I'll need to check that one out. Apart from the Descent series, there were a couple of other 6DOF games back in the late 90s too. Forsaken was one (although more multiplayer focused) and both Incoming games have some 6DOF parts.

Personally, I was never big into the gaming scene as a kid as I grew up with a Mac. However, even then, I did have quite a few rather great games like X-Wing, the Hornet flight simulators, etc.

You may have gotten into it just a few years too late. I grew up with the Mac too and it was arguably the premier gaming platform in the late 80s and early 90s, but it had fallen away by the mid 90s.

Also, this thread reminded me of the following image:

[Dark Hunter]

That is one thing I've noticed about FPS's, players today want more action and less exploration.

I can't say one style is definitively better than the other, as I've enjoyed both, but it would be cool for a new not-Metroidvania game to feature some massive, sprawling levels to explore. Growing up playing Descent kinda instills a need for exploring, you know?

I just had a deeply philosophical thought about all this, but... yeah, it's not really worth sharing. It bears more thinking about.

* Dark Hunter ponders.

[mxlm]

I can't say one style is definitively better than the other, as I've enjoyed both, but it would be cool for a new not-Metroidvania game to feature some massive, sprawling levels to explore. Growing up playing Descent kinda instills a need for exploring, you know?

The GTA knockoffs have that which you seek. Just Cause 2, Saints Row 2, Red Faction: Guerrilla, a bunch of others that aren't coming to mind...