[Buckshee Rounds]

My bad about the Bakha.

But still, it would give us an idea that there are probably several hundreds of heavy bombers out there (GTB Ursa, Osiris, etc.) so it means that the are also several hundreds of anticap warheads.

I think I'll drop the concept about anticap bombs doing horribly low damage to shields. I think the reason for that is simply for game balance - intercepting bombs wouldn't be fun and would kill you all the time. Considering that, it's probably the reason why the GTVA thought of such a thing as the Colossus.

If hundreds of 5 GT torpedoes can't do any noticeable damage to Lucy's shields, then beams can. I mean, the Colly doesn't have the firepower of hundreds of mentioned missiles, which leads me to believe that beams are really designed to ignore shields.

Not only does the game's mechanics prove this, but also the fact that the GTVA didn't bother to shield their ships; knowing that their enemies were now capable of arming beam cannons.

Actually the Colossus has as many missile batteries as it does beam cannons. And what do you mean by GTVA shielding their ships? Lucifer is the only example of a larger than fighter size vessel with a working shield system. Even the Shivans can't seem to shield any other capships. How would the GTVA know the Shivans had beam cannons on their capships by FS2 when they were expecting their beamless great war nemesis?

[TrashMan]

Large bombs doing little shield damage is a gemaplay decission, (same as shockwaves not damaging subsystems) so players don't die too damn often. a bomb getting shot down and killing a planer is not really fun, now is it?

With FSO we have arm time so bombs have a dinky explosion if they didn't reach their intended target.

Also, if a 10KT missile does more damage than a 5KT one, then it's safe to assume that explosions do affect shields. Because they do. We've seen it happen. It's logical. And bomb shockwaves, nerfed as they are, can still kill you.

[General Battuta]

With FSO we have arm time so bombs have a dinky explosion if they didn't reach their intended target.

Er no we don't, not unless you tabled it in yourself or you're playing BP.

[Marcov]

How would the GTVA know the Shivans had beam cannons on their capships by FS2 when they were expecting their beamless great war nemesis?

Well, there must be other enemies within the GTVA, such as Bosch and his lackies. They, too, have beams, so what's the use of putting on shields?

[Buckshee Rounds]

How would the GTVA know the Shivans had beam cannons on their capships by FS2 when they were expecting their beamless great war nemesis?

Well, there must be other enemies within the GTVA, such as Bosch and his lackies. They, too, have beams, so what's the use of putting on shields?

Well call it hunch but probably because they don't have the tech? Like I said the Lucifer is the only large ship to have ever sported a shield system. If the GTVA had that capability but chose not to implement it I would have thought it'd be mentioned.

[MatthTheGeek]

Shield system would have given them a huuuge advantage against bombers. I don't really see any good reason why they would not have used that tech if they had it, really.

[TrashMan]

Inverse cube law I suppose.

Exponential growth in power requirements as the shield gets bigger.

Hence why Lucy needed 5 super-reactor. Not because it's shield was uber-super-special..but because shielding a ship of that size simply required that much power.

[NGTM-1R]

Shield system would have given them a huuuge advantage against bombers. I don't really see any good reason why they would not have used that tech if they had it, really.

The Lucifer required five reactors of incredible size and power to handle a shield system, which have the side effect of blowing up like an Orion packed with Meson Bombs if the ship is badly enough damaged. Expense is always a factor.

And creating a natural failure point in your fleet that just might take a node down and cut off a significant portion of your forces is something a sane commander will think twice about.

[Buckshee Rounds]

Shield system would have given them a huuuge advantage against bombers. I don't really see any good reason why they would not have used that tech if they had it, really.

The Lucifer required five reactors of incredible size and power to handle a shield system, which have the side effect of blowing up like an Orion packed with Meson Bombs if the ship is badly enough damaged. Expense is always a factor.

And creating a natural failure point in your fleet that just might take a node down and cut off a significant portion of your forces is something a sane commander will think twice about.

Lucky the Shivans are anything but sane.

[NGTM-1R]

Well, to be fair to them, they did not realize it was possible.

The GTA/GTVA not only knows this is possible, but has actually executed such an attack.

[Snail]

Well, to be fair to them, they did not realize it was possible.

Orly? I think there was some motive behind following the Rosetta and the transports to Altair (or wherever that was) and actually appearing in-mission to block the node in that one mission I forget the name of.

[NGTM-1R]

Orly? I think there was some motive behind following the Rosetta and the transports to Altair (or wherever that was) and actually appearing in-mission to block the node in that one mission I forget the name of.

For the lulz of it. Lucifer detected targets in a system, Lucifer attacked targets. If they had really been so certain of the danger, they would never have jumped from Delta Serp to Earth without being sure they'd cleared the system.

[Snail]

Orly? I think there was some motive behind following the Rosetta and the transports to Altair (or wherever that was) and actually appearing in-mission to block the node in that one mission I forget the name of.

For the lulz of it. Lucifer detected targets in a system, Lucifer attacked targets. If they had really been so certain of the danger, they would never have jumped from Delta Serp to Earth without being sure they'd cleared the system.

I is calling bull. Shivans aren't mindless animals who attack things "for the lulz of it".



(anon is mindless animals lolol)

[Mars]

To be fair, unless you're really good, the Lucifer almost succeeded in repelling the subspace attack.

I know that my Ursa and one Herc were the only ones left alive last time I played.

[NGTM-1R]

I is calling bull. Shivans aren't mindless animals who attack things "for the lulz of it".

(anon is mindless animals lolol)

Considering that at that point in the game, they not only can but their target priority is probably dictated by the lulz (they've smashed Vasuda Prime but may not yet have a location for Earth), why the hell not?

I mean, doing it for the lulz actually requires some level of intelligence.

[Snail]

I is calling bull. Shivans aren't mindless animals who attack things "for the lulz of it".

(anon is mindless animals lolol)

Considering that at that point in the game, they not only can but their target priority is probably dictated by the lulz (they've smashed Vasuda Prime but may not yet have a location for Earth), why the hell not?

I mean, doing it for the lulz actually requires some level of intelligence.

Still not sold. The Shivans in FS1 repeatedly prioritized targets of strategic importance (the shield systems, the transports to give a couple examples), they weren't just acts of random lulzy destruction (no matter how much lulz they caused).

[Timerlane]

Yeah, that's one of those weird issues; if the Shivans knew the information was out there, why didn't they just send an Azrael full of Shivans down to the planet sometime in advance in order to destroy the information repository in detail? Simple arrogance/overconfidence?

I do have a sub-theory that the Shivans somehow developed some sort of loose alliance/non-aggression pact with the Hammer of Light(obviously some time after the Ramses, and La Ruota della Fortuna), explaining how HoL forces to continue to exist in Shivan-controlled space seemingly unimpeded, and in fact seem to come to back up the Shivans on at least 2-3 occasions(Reaching the Zenith, Black Omega, and of course, the Prophecy in The Great Hunt), and the Sekhmet(Shivans sharing primitive Nahema schematics?).

In this case, the HoL in Altair picked up the scientists' broadcast, and told the Shivans the contents of the transmissions. It's possible the HoL may not have known how significant it was at the time, but the Shivans may have known what the Ancients had discovered about them prior to their demise.

OTOH, the FS Ref Bible did point out the similarities between the Ancient and Vasudan languages, so it's possible that the Shivans, over the time spent eradicating the Ancients' multi-galaxy empire, learned to 'decode' Ancient, and were thus able to understand and/or communicate Vasudan. The Shivans could have simply considered the HoL irrelevant for the moment, and ignored them, as HoL forces seemingly never engage the Shivans(based on the how the Ramses chooses to just roll over and die when the Taranis attacks).

Without this(or significant parts thereof), there just doesn't seem to be a reason to send the flagship of the Shivan armada after a couple transports and a science cruiser(unless they were just trying to kill Alpha 1 ).

[NGTM-1R]

Still not sold. The Shivans in FS1 repeatedly prioritized targets of strategic importance (the shield systems, the transports to give a couple examples), they weren't just acts of random lulzy destruction (no matter how much lulz they caused).

There's no evidence for any of that. Altair could well have been on their line of travel to Earth, and the briefing for the shield transport mission makes it clear that the Shivans have been hitting everything that comes out of that station, shields or no shields.

Plus you're crediting the Shivans with having done some kind of actual intelligence work, to which I must ask...how?

[Timerlane]

Subspace tracking? We only realized they could do it after Tombaugh. They took note of where the shield prototypes had been taken(the Command Brief suggests that they were built from actual captured Shivan shield generators, and not mere scan data as you were sent to collect), and were taking no chances in letting them get away(apart from taking the station itself out, which itself perhaps suggests some level of restraint, or perhaps again, overconfidence?).

It's also pretty well expressed in the briefing that attacking the Zenith was a way of breaking through a relative weak point in the Shivan fleet, shown well aside from the Lucifer, and Altair looks a little out of the way between Sol and Beta Aquilae, where the Lucifer had been seen last, and for that matter, in the opposite direction of Delta Serpentis, where the Lucifer would jump from, to Sol.

That does lend a little more credence to the thought that the HoL over in Altair could have been simply irrelevant to the Shivans for the moment, and could be cleaned up after the Lucifer had attacked Sol.

[Satellight]

To be fair, unless you're really good, the Lucifer almost succeeded in repelling the subspace attack.

I know that my Ursa and one Herc were the only ones left alive last time I played.

Failing this mission is non-canon. There is no cutscene for that pilot !