[General Battuta]

Okay, that's fair. 

[iamzack]

iamzack, why do you personally believe that? What are your stated assertions that cause you to hold that belief? If I were to say that, following a court ruling on what you're saying, all speech that is considered harmful to vulnerable groups should be banned, would you be for it or against it? Would you be comfortable with the major ramifications of a belief such as that?

You left out the word "intentionally." And I assume you're going for a big slippery slope type deal here, but the fact is that in the vast majority of cases where someone would be accused of intending to harm someone via speech, it would be difficult to prove in court at best. There wouldn't be a huge onslaught of people being arrested over saying "**** you man" during a traffic jam to someone who turns out to be recently widowed or something.

The WBC on the other hand isn't exactly subtle in their intentions. They hurt people over and over again, people who are grieving over a lost friend or family member, and they do it intentionally and repeatedly. They bring their children along to join in telling grieving parents that it is good that their child is dead.

So yeah, IMHO, the spirit of the law does not sanction that kind of cruelty and anti-social behaviour.

[karajorma]

Given Fred Phelps background as a civil-rights lawyer, I remember once hearing a semi-credible argument that he was actually an ultra-deep cover atheist trying to discredit the church.

[Flipside]

It would certainly be undeniable proof of Poes law.

It kind of reminds me of another Far-Right lawyer, good ol' Jack Thompson, when he tried to announce he was going to prevent the release of Halo 3 the day after it had been released. That was nothing whatsoever to do with the content of Halo 3, and everything to do with the fact that the game was getting far more attention than he was, it didn't take a genius to work that one out.

Phelps works along much the same line, he's realised that the more offensive he is, the more attention he gets, and then he scampers off and hides behind Freedom of Speech when he gets caught, he's actually found a way to turn one of your main strengths into a weakness.

If he simply stated his opinion, it would be different, but to actually go to those funerals and attempt to incite anger is, to my mind, going beyond the freedom of having an opinion and into attempting to create anger and strife through physical activity.

[Sushi]

Best solution to WBC is to ignore them: don't feed the professional trolls.

[Kolgena]

How does hate speech fit into all this? At least in Canada, I can't see anything this ridiculous being allowed to pass.

(Unknown: I'm not saying that there are countries full of nutcases in today's world. It was more of my musing that the sort of ignorance that this represents was consistent with Hobbes beliefs, and probably more likely to be found waaaay back when in dark ages or something like that)

[Flipside]

Best solution to WBC is to ignore them: don't feed the professional trolls.

Oh, I agree, that would be the best way, but the problem is, if I were a father who had just lost my 9 year old daughter, and some old ****head and his family were at the funeral cheering the fact, I wouldn't give a damn about the law, or about Freedom of Speech, I'd be beating so many barrels of **** out of him that I could start my own fertilizer industry.

[Solatar]

Found this in the comments section of the posted article:
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=146050748782975&index=1

I'm glad that there's some "counter" organization going on in response to WBC.  Restores a tad bit of my faith in humanity that there are people going out of their way to stop them.

[Mongoose]

Honestly, I'd be all for a law against the Westboro Baptist "Church" specifically.  It steps neatly around all of the slippery-slope arguments.

(yes i realize the implausibility/idiocy of this but a man can dream)

[NGTM-1R]

Given Fred Phelps background as a civil-rights lawyer, I remember once hearing a semi-credible argument that he was actually an ultra-deep cover atheist trying to discredit the church.

A search of Fred Phelp's case history reveals that, as a civil rights lawyer, his history isn't history. It's myth. He would demand huge amounts of money and take out-of-court settlements for a fraction of a fraction. He lost roughly four out of five cases that actually went to trial.

Basically, if he were a civil rights lawyer, he would have been working for precedents, court judgments of fault, not settlements. This was clearly not the case. So it is unfortunate, but true: Fred Phelps is for real.

Honestly, I'd be all for a law against the Westboro Baptist "Church" specifically.  It steps neatly around all of the slippery-slope arguments.

(yes i realize the implausibility/idiocy of this but a man can dream)

It's actually not a bad plan. The Phelps compound is listed as church property. They live, eat, and sleep in tax-free areas. This is clearly a violation of the spirit and probably the letter of the tax code.

[karajorma]

Basically, if he were a civil rights lawyer, he would have been working for precedents, court judgments of fault, not settlements. This was clearly not the case. So it is unfortunate, but true: Fred Phelps is for real.

Unless his cover goes deeper than you think.

[NGTM-1R]

Unless his cover goes deeper than you think.

If his cover goes deep enough to have caused his sons deep-tissue and permanent cartilage damage with a mattock, the man has sold his soul, his humanity, to his cause either way.

Read all about it. Addicted To Hate is interesting, if somewhat horrifying, stuff.

[karajorma]

There's no cause so right you won't find idiots following it.

Of course the most likely explanation is that he really is as ****ed up bat **** insane about religion as his words claim.

[Titan]

So... these WBC people... who apperently are a bunch of inbreeds... are going to a funeral of a 9-year old girl... who was shot by a crazy gunman trying to get at a politcal figure... to protest having the funeral... in front of the kid's family, friends, etc... the whole time, shouting stuff like 'fag', 'God wanted this to happen', and 'the guy who killed her was a divine missionary'...

...

You know what? **** this.
**** them too.

[Bobboau]

when will a crazed gunman go after them...

I mean it's only a matter of time.

[StarSlayer]

Well, I wouldn't be miffed if at one of the military funerals they raid the 3-volley salute was accidentally a little low and accidentally live ammunition.  It's was probably God's Will after all.

[Nuke]

two words: gas chamber
really, you dont want to go to jail in arizona.

[rscaper1070]

I keep hoping for one of those uncanny coincidences. How great would it be if the guy got struck by lightning at one of his so called protests? Or his whole clan got tornadoed or flash flooded off the face of the Earth?

[Sushi]

Well, I wouldn't be miffed if at one of the military funerals they raid the 3-volley salute was accidentally a little low and accidentally live ammunition.  It's was probably God's Will after all.

Except that the breakdown in rule of law this would represent if it actually occurred would be worse than the existence of the WBC in the first place.

[StarSlayer]

I said accidentally.